Open stations

[Mag_seven]

In Germany and Switzerland all stations are open and there are regular and effective on board checks and draconian fines for being caught without a ticket. Why can't such a system work here?

 

[trainophile]

Probably cheaper to operate barriers than pay on-board staff? Especially if they are expected to be draconian!

 

[NSE]

You got it one. In theory, one set of barriers at a station will work all day every day for the price of one installation and a tiny bit of maintenance. They don't need holiday or sick pay or maternity leave or they won't get a promotion and leave.

Theres two sides to the argument of course. Stations where every train has a guard could be argued to not need any. But even if a train has a guard, services at rush hour are too busy to sometimes get through, so the barriers act as secondary check for those that the guard didn't get a chance to check.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Berlin excepted - the Germans are more obliging to authorities ..(though not all trains , at certain times will have tight ticket checks)

 

[DPWH]

There's always going to be some level of fare avoidance, as no system is perfect.

There's clearly a law of diminishing returns. There are some things that are cheap and might (say) halve avoidance. But eventually you get the point where you're spending more money to recover fares than you would have got if people had paid them in the first place. And when you get to that point financially it's worth letting the dodgers get away with it.

If people are determined to avoid paying fares and are prepared to become violent if confronted - possibly with their mates along side them - then safety of staff must be paramount.

 

[30907]

In German urban areas ticketless travel is a major issue, despite penalty fares - and onboard checking is IME hit and miss except on Intercity services.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

In Germany and Switzerland all stations are open and there are regular and effective on board checks and draconian fines for being caught without a ticket. Why can't such a system work here?

because the British do not accept ihr papieren bitte quite as easily as ze chermans ...

 

[thenorthern]

Got to remember as well there would be the people crying to the Daily Mail if they got big fines and they would publish headlines such as. "Mother given £500 fine for boarding train without ticket think its unfair to pay for Mr. Stagecoach's new Rolls Royce"

 

[RichmondCommu]

In Germany and Switzerland all stations are open and there are regular and effective on board checks and draconian fines for being caught without a ticket. Why can't such a system work here?

Why would you want open stations in this country?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

because the British do not accept ihr papieren bitte quite as easily as ze chermans ...

Quite so. The compulsory carrying of identification documentation is so ingrained across Europe that no-one spares it a second thought. So when tickets are being checked and a chancer is caught it is very difficult to avoid giving correct details. This makes it relatively easier to use a system involving summary fines, ie get caught and pay whatever semi-punitive amount, on the spot or later makes little difference.

Our attitudes to civil liberties are somewhat different and although we do have penalty fares in some areas for much of the country it falls to the courts to deal with fare evaders. Though the emphasis is somewhat different in Scotland. Having barriered stations reduces the likelihood of fare evaders boarding trains in the first place so avoiding any issues relating to giving details or burdening the courts. It's just a shame that the DfT won't mandate the staffing of ticket barriers at all times that stations are open.

 

[jopsuk]

big stations in this country were built as open. Then they had platform gates added. Then there was an Open Station initiative and the gates were opened and left to rust in place (or become seized with layers of paint, especially where that paint was red). Then it was decided to put automatic ticket gates in

 

[QueensCurve]

Why would you want open stations in this country?

1the are convenient, unluttered and welcoming.

 

[randyrippley]

Some stations always were open.
Yeovil Junctiom for instance.