Open Data

[WelshBluebird]

Personally I'd just like NRE to be more accurate.
The number of times there are long delays / cancelations on the south wales valley lines but they are not reported at all on NRE. It is a large bug bear of mine.

 

[34D]

Not really - there's a reason why 365s look like they have a smiley face on the front of them

Heritage traction all the way.

 

[Poggs]

The only thing that annoys me about the OpenTrainTimes site is the limited dates available from the drop-down. To bypass this you have to change the URL

http://www.opentraintimes.com/location/GMV/2012/02/17/14:47

to a date in April:

http://www.opentraintimes.com/location/GMV/2012/04/17/14:47

Can you drop me an email and ask for it as a feature? That's the best way for me to know what's bugging you and how to fix it!

 

[87015]

Freight seems to have vanished and there is wibble elsewhere that certain operators have ejected the toys from the pushchair?

 

[Freightmaster]

Freight seems to have vanished...

Still available on Freightmaster Online!

Seriously, releasing that amount of 'commercially sensitive' data into
the public domain en masse without seeking permission was asking
for trouble; perhaps it should have been done more slowly/subtly?

MARK

 

[Eagle]

Seriously, releasing that amount of 'commercially sensitive' data into the public domain en masse without seeking permission was asking for trouble; perhaps it should have been done more slowly/subtly?

Balls. All train time data was released into the public domain by the DfT, Network Rail and the like. All OTT was doing was just turning it into a human-usable GUI.

(Or does "commercially sensitive" here mean "oh no people aren't paying to use my website because the data is public domain now"?)

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Seriously, releasing that amount of 'commercially sensitive' data into
the public domain en masse without seeking permission was asking
for trouble; perhaps it should have been done more slowly/subtly?

The creator of OTT has stated that he has worked long and hard to get network Rail to release the WTT data, and why would we disbelieve him? The WTT belongs to NWR, and they have the right to release it to whomever they wish.

 

[GB]

Has anyone got any information on the claim that NR are releasing live running details?

...a feed from CCF would be nice

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Freight seems to have vanished and there is wibble elsewhere that certain operators have ejected the toys from the pushchair?

Unfortunately it appears that certain Railtour companies have kicked up a fuss.

 

[The Planner]

I'll check the WTT offer responses tomorrow to see if the TOC/FOCs ticked the "Do not pass on my information to carefully selected third parties for other purposes" and "Do not contact me via email or mobile phone"

Interesting precedent set though as East Coast had to release their WTT as a FOI request a while back if I recall.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Interesting precedent set though as East Coast had to release their WTT as a FOI request a while back if I recall.

Yes, here.
At first, in July 2010, the Company declined on the grounds that the data was the Property of Network Rail and was "supplied in confidence". The Requester persisted and the Company re-affirmed that the data was supplied by NR in confidence and added that NR did not permit its publication. The Requester still pushed for release and on that third attempt, East Coast provided copies of their WTTs.

When the next rounds of Timetables were introduced, similar Requests to EC resulted in the information being released promptly at each timetable change.

 

[Temple Meads]

I have emailed Peter about this matter, and I hope for a reply soon.

 

[Freightmaster]

(Or does "commercially sensitive" here mean "oh no people aren't paying to use my website because the data is public domain now"?)

Not at all - since opentimes launched, if anything I have seen an increase in
people subscribing to Freightmaster Online, as they want to know which paths
are actually used, motive power, etc, so I actually have a vested interest for
the service to survive, rather than willing it to fail!!!

In other words, opentimes, freightlocate, et al. are increasing the overall pool
of enthusiasts who take an interest in railfreight operations, a significant proportion
of whom then go on to the next level by subscribing to Freightmaster Online!


MARK

 

[Eagle]

In other words, opentimes, freightlocate, et al. are increasing the overall pool of enthusiasts who take an interest in railfreight operations, a significant proportion of whom then go on to the next level by subscribing to Freightmaster Online!

Interesting, and that does make a lot of sense.

However I still don't agree that freight WTTs are commercially sensitive, particularly as they are the property of Network Rail, who aren't a commercial operation. I mean, what would Freightliner care that everyone knew they ran an intermodal train at 13.04 from Southampton Docks to Crewe Basford Hall via Leamington and Nuneaton (or whatever)? The other train operators, both FOCs and TOCs, certainly would have known this before the data was made public, and the path would have been known about to members of the public who wanted to find out anyway through various forums and gen sites, such as yours. Or indeed from just looking out of my bedroom window and seeing it.

 

[The Planner]

I mean, what would Freightliner care that everyone knew they ran an intermodal train at 13.04 from Southampton Docks to Crewe Basford Hall via Leamington and Nuneaton (or whatever)? The other train operators, both FOCs and TOCs, certainly would have known this before the data was made public

They wouldn't if we altered the path after the timetable offer unless they checked themselves. We are under no obligation, for example, tell DB or XC that we altered a Freightliner schedule unless it affected them.

 

[Eagle]

They wouldn't if we altered the path after the timetable offer unless they checked themselves. We are under no obligation, for example, tell DB or XC that we altered a Freightliner schedule unless it affected them.

Yeah, but OTT didn't provide that information either :P

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

• Formations and short forms
• Menu for first class
• How many seats are reserved, and you can check reserved seats so you know not to stray near
• Location of quiet coaches
• If there are any carriage/toilet faults such as headphone failures (so basically the 390 set) or blocked toilets
• Any other details such as faulty details, stations where the back doors don't open (Salford Crescent has had problems with this in the past, it can hold 5 1/2 C185 carriages

 

[ainsworth74]

• If there are any carriage/toilet faults such as headphone failures (so basically the 390 set) or blocked toilets

You do realise those have been deactivated for several years now so that's not really a fault.

 

[Darandio]

• 
  or blocked toilets

• 
  
  Basically, you want real time data to find out that Alan pebbledashed the toilet because of last nights Vindaloo, and it is now out of service?

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

@ainsworth74 oh.
@Dara it would be a good pre-warning.

 

[The Planner]

Yeah, but OTT didn't provide that information either :P

Depends on how often OTT was updated with CIF data, if it was picking up files every night after the uploads from NR then it should see whatever changes we make soon after.

 

[starrymarkb]

Bus Fares... The number of people I get wanting fares (esp at the weekend when the bus co's are shut)

 

[Eagle]

Actually I have a suggestion; could you add some code to change the "timed for..." into something more human-readable (where possible, of course, ones that just say EMU can't be made more specific I guess), such as Pacer instead of DMUA, Voyager instead of DMUV, IC225 instead of E410 and so on?

 

[87015]

Actually I have a suggestion; could you add some code to change the "timed for..." into something more human-readable (where possible, of course, ones that just say EMU can't be made more specific I guess), such as Pacer instead of DMUA, Voyager instead of DMUV, IC225 instead of E410 and so on?

Without access to the unit diagrams though, isn't that just setting up people to get the wrong idea and complain? It seems to have been people taking everything as gospel that has caused some of the issues with Vintage and Wild West in the first place from what there is on nat-pres. The timing type bid with the path is in no way linked to the diagramming databases, and there are loads and loads of examples where the timing load doesn't relate to the booked traction. As a well known example the 1843 Euston-Crewe is timed as tilting junk SX but booked for a skoda (also junk, in the name of fairness) FO...

 

[transmanche]

Without access to the unit diagrams though, isn't that just setting up people to get the wrong idea and complain?

Complain to whom? And about what? OTT clearly says 'timed for' and not 'operated by'?

 

[Wath Yard]

It doesn't really matter what a website says, someone is going to misunderstand the information provided and make assumptions. As to who they will complain to - probably anybody and everybody. I once heard someone whinging because the progress of a late running test train wasn't posted on a gen group every 10 minutes and they had the right to know exactly where it was.

As for OTT, if we get the freight paths and all/some of the charter paths back then personally I don't see any areas for improvement, though real time running info might be useful.