Only one with a 1st class ticket (Southern)

[GodAtum]

Yesterday evening when coming home from work, out of 5 other people in 1st, I was the only one with a 1st class ticket. The RPI had a field day and raked in loads of fines! I wonder when people will learn :roll:

 

[sarahj]

But they keep saying, I did not know it was first class. Pointing out the signs, headrest covers etc, you get an oh!!!

I've had the classic, never traveleved by train before, so did not know.

No seats: Youre sitting in coach 12 of a 12 coach train, how do you know?
(for getting on at vic).

SJ

 

[GodAtum]

It seems to be getting worse. EVERY passenger in 1st apart from me did not have a correct ticket.

 

[MikeWh]

The RPI had a field day and raked in loads of fines! I wonder when people will learn :roll:

Or even penalty fares!

 

[Flamingo]

Yesterday evening when coming home from work, out of 5 other people in 1st, I was the only one with a 1st class ticket. The RPI had a field day and raked in loads of fines! I wonder when people will learn :roll:

Well, there are four that have learned! I wonder when they will turn up on here...

 

[Squaddie]

Yesterday evening when coming home from work, out of 5 other people in 1st, I was the only one with a 1st class ticket. The RPI had a field day and raked in loads of fines! I wonder when people will learn :roll:

This is a regular occurrence on London Midland: on my most recent journey, 9 of the 12 people in the first class area had standard tickets. Unfortunately, in my experience, the guard only ever asks them to move into the correct part of the train, so there's absolutely no incentive not to try it on.

 

[alex17595]

This is a regular occurrence on London Midland: on my most recent journey, 9 of the 12 people in the first class area had standard tickets. Unfortunately, in my experience, the guard only ever asks them to move into the correct part of the train, so there's absolutely no incentive not to try it on.

They are similar anyway!

 

[SS4]

They are similar anyway!

True except you'll only ever travel 1st with LM to get away from others so I'd be pretty cheesed off if I'd paid for first and got standard

 

[Tibbs]

But they keep saying, I did not know it was first class. Pointing out the signs, headrest covers etc, you get an oh!!!

I've had the classic, never traveleved by train before, so did not know.

No seats: Youre sitting in coach 12 of a 12 coach train, how do you know?
(for getting on at vic).

SJ

Which is great right up until the point where you get on a Southern Metro service. First class seats (ok so they're the same as std), first class stickers, first class antimacassars, first class on the glass, warnings about penalty fares for travelling in first. Which is all great until you realise THERE'S NO FIRST CLASS ON METRO SERVICES!

How difficult is it really to put up a sign saying 'feel free to sit here, no first class in operation'? They put up a scrolling message on the TIS boards, but it isn't very regular.

I've only ever travelled on a Southern Metro train, no other Souther services and if I saw the same train doing another route, I'd probably sit in first, because (despite all the dire warnings) I'd expect first to be declassified. The only reason I wouldn't is because I read threads like this.

 

[jon0844]

If first class is declassified, check the timetable or look for any announcement - or just ask.

Don't then assume that you can always sit in first class!

 

[Squaddie]

True except you'll only ever travel 1st with LM to get away from others so I'd be pretty cheesed off if I'd paid for first and got standard

That's all I expect from first class - it's a means to get a seat in a pleasant environment away from the noisy, unwashed masses. I don't want free food, drink or newspapers.

 

[starrymarkb]

That's all I expect from first class - it's a means to get a seat in a pleasant environment away from the noisy, unwashed masses. I don't want free food, drink or newspapers.

Isn't that also what most First Class is on the Continent.

 

[Deerfold]

Isn't that also what most First Class is on the Continent.

We got free food and drink in 1st between Desenzano del Garda and Venice last year.

 

[Squaddie]

Isn't that also what most First Class is on the Continent.

In my experience, yes it is. It's a larger, more comfortable seat (generally 1+2 rather than 2+2) and a quieter, more pleasant environment. If you want refreshments you can buy them from the trolley.

But then, it generally only costs between 50% and 75% more than the equivalent journey in second class, rather than the 500% differential that is common in the UK.

 

[Deerfold]

But then, it generally only costs between 50% and 75% more than the equivalent journey in second class, rather than the 500% differential that is common in the UK.

Is that an exaggeration for effect? I doubt there's many journeys with that difference in price - though you may see it at the bottom tiers of Advance fares as they're not that desperate to get you into First Class.

Looking up the premium for my local station in Yorkshire to London it's 44% extra for first class on an anytime ticket - though there are some better deals off peak in Standard.

 

[MP33]

On Greater Anglia in the last two months I have seen two people travelling a short distance told to sit in standard class and a pregnant lady told although you can use first class on a standard ticket in your condition, you must obtain permission first. It would appear that Greater Anglia specify a time limit to stop a lady having a two year pregnancy.

I have also noted people who have upgraded yet to have the news that it does not apply in the peak broken to them.

 

[tony_mac]

Is that an exaggeration for effect? I doubt there's many journeys with that difference in price

If there aren't any first-class off-peak tickets (which is quite common) then it's not an exaggeration if you travel at off-peak times.
(e.g. London - Manchester return, £77.30 or £441).
If you have a 16-25 railcard then it's even worse!

 

[sarahj]

This is a regular occurrence on London Midland: on my most recent journey, 9 of the 12 people in the first class area had standard tickets. Unfortunately, in my experience, the guard only ever asks them to move into the correct part of the train, so there's absolutely no incentive not to try it on.

The guard can not issue a penalty fare. These can only be issued by RPI's. You can only get them to move, or sell them a full fare ticket. On train upgrades not being available unless the person buys beforer sitting down. Stops those who sit down, then say, I was looking to upgrade. (This is for Southern, LM might have a differing policy)

 

[Llanigraham]

Nice guard on the Paddington Hereford last Friday evening saw my ID and told me not to join the "cattle" and have a comfy seat. No free tea or coffee though, but still most enjoyable.

 

[Deerfold]

If there aren't any first-class off-peak tickets (which is quite common) then it's not an exaggeration if you travel at off-peak times.
(e.g. London - Manchester return, £77.30 or £441).
If you have a 16-25 railcard then it's even worse!

I'm not saying examples don't exist but I think to describe the difference of 500% as "common" when there's plenty that are similar to the "continental rates" quoted is an exaggeration.

 

[SJN]

I am a guard for LM and we can only upgrade or ask them to move. Most don't want to pay more money and move after the usual excuses. As stated earlier in thread, only RPI's can issue penalty fares.

 

[neilmc]

If you are the only person in a first class compartment who has bought a first class ticket doesn't that imply that the concept of first and second class should be scrapped as its wasting valuable space?

 

[All Line Rover]

I'm not saying examples don't exist but I think to describe the difference of 500% as "common" when there's plenty that are similar to the "continental rates" quoted is an exaggeration.

But it is common! Especially for those with 16-25 or Family Railcards. Here are some examples:

Birmingham to Cheltenham Spa: £15.20 Standard, £58 First (almost 400%)
Birmingham to Oxford: £22.65 Standard, £85.50 First (almost 400%)
Manchester to Stafford: £13.75 Standard, £56.50 First (over 400%)
Manchester to Leeds: £12 Standard, £50 First (over 400%)
Crewe to Liverpool: £6.60 Standard, £32.60 First (almost 500%)
Crewe to Preston: £16.15 Standard, £97 First (almost 600%)
Rugby to London: £26.15 Standard, £194 First (almost 700%!)
Carlisle to Glasgow: £15.30 Standard, £153 First (exactly 1000%!!!)

I believe under BR it was always 150%. These figures make for an interesting comparison.

Rugby to London can be extrapolated to cover most Virgin Trains journeys to/from London Euston. Is it any wonder that almost half of many Off-Peak Virgin trains are startlingly empty? Not everyone wants to book in advance and tie themselves to a specific train with Advance tickets.

East Coast are little better (the differential only being smaller because of higher SVR and SSR fares compared to the WCML), nor are FGW any better (just look at Banbury to Oxford or Reading).

Crewe to Liverpool (priced by London Midland) is hilarious. Almost 500% extra to travel in the same seat, with the same legroom, with people walking through the compartment every minute, with no access to First Class lounges, with only a blind, power socket and 'private' compartment to take comfort in. Even then the segregation aspect is rarely enforced, as demonstrated in this very thread!

Carlisle to Glasgow is simply shocking, especially given the abundance of spare First Class capacity on that route. Who in their right mind is going to pay 1000% extra to travel First Class? Carlisle to Edinburgh, priced by TPE, is little better (over 700%) despite TPE offering some staggeringly cheap First AP fares.

 

[Squaddie]

Is that an exaggeration for effect? I doubt there's many journeys with that difference in price - though you may see it at the bottom tiers of Advance fares as they're not that desperate to get you into First Class.

If I were to go to Euston right now and buy a ticket for immediate travel to Holyhead, travelling back at the same time tomorrow, it would cost £90 in Standard and £440 in First. It's criminal.

 

[Deerfold]

If I were to go to Euston right now and buy a ticket for immediate travel to Holyhead, travelling back at the same time tomorrow, it would cost £90 in Standard and £440 in First. It's criminal.

As I said, there are examples where the cost is 500% more - though this one is "only" 389% more.

I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of the mean or modal differential for First class rather than people just saying here's a list of some that are a big difference.

But it is common! Especially for those with 16-25 or Family Railcards. Here are some examples:

Birmingham to Cheltenham Spa: £15.20 Standard, £58 First (almost 400%)
Birmingham to Oxford: £22.65 Standard, £85.50 First (almost 400%)
Manchester to Stafford: £13.75 Standard, £56.50 First (over 400%)
Manchester to Leeds: £12 Standard, £50 First (over 400%)
Crewe to Liverpool: £6.60 Standard, £32.60 First (almost 500%)
Crewe to Preston: £16.15 Standard, £97 First (almost 600%)
Rugby to London: £26.15 Standard, £194 First (almost 700%!)
Carlisle to Glasgow: £15.30 Standard, £153 First (exactly 1000%!!!)

I believe under BR it was always 150%. These figures make for an interesting comparison.

Rugby to London can be extrapolated to cover most Virgin Trains journeys to/from London Euston. Is it any wonder that almost half of many Off-Peak Virgin trains are startlingly empty? Not everyone wants to book in advance and tie themselves to a specific train with Advance tickets.

East Coast are little better (the differential only being smaller because of higher SVR and SSR fares compared to the WCML), nor are FGW any better (just look at Banbury to Oxford or Reading).

Crewe to Liverpool (priced by London Midland) is hilarious. Almost 500% extra to travel in the same seat, with the same legroom, with people walking through the compartment every minute, with no access to First Class lounges, with only a blind, power socket and 'private' compartment to take comfort in. Even then the segregation aspect is rarely enforced, as demonstrated in this very thread!

You seem to be adding another 100% onto all of these - we were talking about the difference between STD and 1ST being 500% - Crewe to Liverpool is 393% more, meaning your carefully picked list only contains 3 examples of tickets where 1st is 500%(or more) more than STD and 8 where it's less than that.

If there aren't any first-class off-peak tickets (which is quite common) then it's not an exaggeration if you travel at off-peak times.
(e.g. London - Manchester return, £77.30 or £441).
If you have a 16-25 railcard then it's even worse!

That's 470% more. If 500% more is so common why do so few of the examples provided actually reach it?

Note - I'm not arguing that any of these differences are small, just that a 500% difference is not common.

 

[Squaddie]

That's 470% more. If 500% more is so common why do so few of the examples provided actually reach it?

With all due respect, I think you're clutching at straws here. I just used an example that I encountered myself a few days ago (and which led to the decision to make the journey by car instead).

The fact is, for flexible off-peak travel, first class is generally many times the price of standard because there is no first class equivalent of the off-peak return.

 

[Deerfold]

With all due respect, I think you're clutching at straws here. I just used an example that I encountered myself a few days ago (and which led to the decision to make the journey by car instead).

The fact is, for flexible off-peak travel, first class is generally many times the price of standard because there is no first class equivalent of the off-peak return.

I'm not arguing that there are not large differences. I'm arguing that a differential of 500% is not common - of the 10 examples quoted to me by 3 different people only 3 of them are actually over 500%.

 

[trc666]

Certain TOCs do offer off peak first class fares - for example London Terminals - Bournemouth you have the following choice of day singles and returns (sourced from BRfares.com):

FIRST CLASS (Single / Return)
ANYTIME £84.00 / £87.90
OFF PEAK £81.20 / £81.30

STANDARD CLASS (Single / Return
ANYTIME £50.90 / £53.30
OFF PEAK £49.20 / £49.30

 

[Comstock]

If you are the only person in a first class compartment who has bought a first class ticket doesn't that imply that the concept of first and second class should be scrapped as its wasting valuable space?

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Squaddie]

I'm not arguing that there are not large differences. I'm arguing that a differential of 500% is not common - of the 10 examples quoted to me by 3 different people only 3 of them are actually over 500%.

I'm sure I could find an example of a few journeys where the difference is 500% or more if I really wanted to, but I don't think it's worth continuing to argue against such pedantry.