There are two cable cars in Barcelona - one from a hill (Montjuïc) to the port and one going up part of Montjuïc. They are of little use as public transport but are targeted at tourists very successfully. They are priced at around twice the London cable car and are well marketed. The London cable car's location outside the city centre unfortunately doesn't lend itself to this approach however. There is also a funicular to Tibidabo which parallels the Funicular de Vallvidrera to the north of the city. The first funicular serves a theme-park and viewpoint and is targeted at tourists whereas the second primarily serves a residential area. Whereas the second is integrated into the main ticketing system, the first is not and a single ticket costs several times more than an ordinary single. This approach allows the city to use tourism to subsidise local transport, which is something London could perhaps learn from here.
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Only four regular commuters use the Emirates Cable Car
- Thread starter bicbasher
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There are two cable cars in Barcelona - one from a hill (Montjuïc) to the port and one going up part of Montjuïc. They are of little use as public transport but are targeted at tourists very successfully. They are priced at around twice the London cable car and are well marketed. The London cable car's location outside the city centre unfortunately doesn't lend itself to this approach however. There is also a funicular to Tibidabo which parallels the Funicular de Vallvidrera to the north of the city. The first funicular serves a theme-park and viewpoint and is targeted at tourists whereas the second primarily serves a residential area. Whereas the second is integrated into the main ticketing system, the first is not and a single ticket costs several times more than an ordinary single. This approach allows the city to use tourism to subsidise local transport, which is something London could perhaps learn from here.
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burneside
Member
More woe for the dangleway with new figures released today showing passenger numbers dwindling again. I wonder if this folly even covers it daily running costs?
Latest figures for the Emirates Air LIne show it was down an average of 1,000 users a day last week, compared with the same period in 2012.
The seven days ending November 30 this year saw 18,572 people use the service - the lowest number since March.
More from The Wharf:
http://www.wharf.co.uk/2013/12/cable-car-suffers-another-drop.html
Latest figures for the Emirates Air LIne show it was down an average of 1,000 users a day last week, compared with the same period in 2012.
The seven days ending November 30 this year saw 18,572 people use the service - the lowest number since March.
More from The Wharf:
http://www.wharf.co.uk/2013/12/cable-car-suffers-another-drop.html
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sorry but is this going to happen every time figures for persons travelling on it get released?
Lets hope you post lots and lots of threads in the summer when patronage increases then.
@Oscar - Im aware of the 2 in Barca and also the furnicular too - been on them and were great fun - I was responding to the post where someone asked if any other cities had one that went nowhere.
Of course in a few years time all that side of City airport is going to be built upon and whilst I am not claiming this will lead to a massive increase in regular commuters I can actually see it as a thing that visiting people to the new business park will get take on to show off what a good location they have in London being so close to the city and Canary Wharf.
burneside
Member
It's no surprise that the number of passengers increases during the school holidays, but that doesn't alter the fact that for large parts of the year the cable car passenger figures are abysmal. The best thing for TfL and the taxpayer would be to offload it to a leisure company as a tourist attraction, but nobody in their right mind would be prepared to take on this white elephant.
They're posting comparisons with last year. I wouldn't be suprised if the comparisions with a year previously are still much lower next summer.
If the area is to be developed, maybe the cable car will improve over time?
How did the DLR do when it first opened? Was it an instant success or did it take a while? I know that once it did take off, its expansion was quite rapid - but surely it wasn't an overnight success?
[let me make it clear I'm not suggesting the cable car will ever be as popular as the DLR!!]
How did the DLR do when it first opened? Was it an instant success or did it take a while? I know that once it did take off, its expansion was quite rapid - but surely it wasn't an overnight success?
[let me make it clear I'm not suggesting the cable car will ever be as popular as the DLR!!]
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Clip, the figures are being compared with this time last year, not this time last week. 1000 people a week fewer are using the cable car compared to last year. That's just about big enough to be worth noticing. I'll expect the drop to continue next year too, even in the summer holidays.
The only way people will start to use the Dangleway more is if it becomes part of the Travelcard zonal system. But that will cost TfL money, so they won't do it. So the cable car will remain the white elephant everyone knew it to be, and the genuine commuters will continue to use their Travelcard on the DLR and Jubilee Line.
The only way people will start to use the Dangleway more is if it becomes part of the Travelcard zonal system. But that will cost TfL money, so they won't do it. So the cable car will remain the white elephant everyone knew it to be, and the genuine commuters will continue to use their Travelcard on the DLR and Jubilee Line.
burneside
Member
The DLR was pretty dire when it first openend, trains consisted of only one carriage, and the computer controlling the system seemed to crash quite frequently bringing everything to a standstill, which didn't instil confidence in using the service. Added to that, the decision to increase the length of the trains to two carriages meant evening and weekend closures to lengthen the platforms almost from day one, which obviously impacted on its use.
I do remember the DLR being a lifesaver during the many tube strikes we seemed to have back then, at least I was able to get from Bow Church to Bank.
Harlesden
Member
This is what TfL told me in an e-mail ...
Thank you for contacting us on 28 November regarding the Emirates Air Line.
We continue to see people use the Emirates Air Line throughout the day to get to and from work, leisure activities in the area and just for the experience.
The Emirates Air Line continues to cover its operating costs while encouraging people to visit Greenwich and the Royal Docks. It is also designed in preparation for the arrival of new homes in the area and the £1 billion Asian Business Port development planned for London’s Royal Albert Dock, both of which are expected to increase commuter use.
Please contact us again if you would like to discuss this matter further. If you would like to phone us, please use our new cheaper number, which is 0343 222 1234.
Thank you for contacting us on 28 November regarding the Emirates Air Line.
We continue to see people use the Emirates Air Line throughout the day to get to and from work, leisure activities in the area and just for the experience.
The Emirates Air Line continues to cover its operating costs while encouraging people to visit Greenwich and the Royal Docks. It is also designed in preparation for the arrival of new homes in the area and the £1 billion Asian Business Port development planned for London’s Royal Albert Dock, both of which are expected to increase commuter use.
Please contact us again if you would like to discuss this matter further. If you would like to phone us, please use our new cheaper number, which is 0343 222 1234.
Ill converse with you if you start to call it by its proper name rather than a pathetic attempt at humour with 'The Dangleway'.
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Burneside summed it up about the DLR - they had massive problems for years when it first opened - even one went off the end of mudchute station IIRC.
Yeah the comparisons with last year are down on the month but there were some other events at Excel around this time last year and world travel market was at the start of November which IIRC wasnt last year so it will obscure the numbers.
Of course if you are looking at headline figures then fine. Dont worry about the circumstances urrounding them. But then when dealing with the railway dont start looking at the circumstances surrounding any delays or pax numbers with them yeah?
cool.
I don't think a comparison between the early days of the cablecar and the DLR really makes much sense: the DLR came at a time of (and helped to further enhance) a time of enormous development - the construction of the Canary Wharf towers was not even underway when the DLR opened in 1987 (indeed, the original Canary Wharf station never opened: it was removed before the railway opened, to permit construction around the viaduct).
But more importantly: the DLR linked potential new workplaces with the rest of the London Transport network - it's easy to forget just how difficult to reach the Isle of Dogs was before the DLR: the Docklands Clipper bus (from Mile End) was a recent (mid-1980s, also funded by the London Docklands Development Corporation) innovation that penetrated the middle of the peninsula, along the newly constructed "red brick road". It's also easy to forget just how little there was on the Island in those years after the docks had closed.... the degree of development of housing, workplaces, and leisure facilities has been immense.
Of course this development had to take place for the DLR to increase its passenger ridership, which in turn demanded several rounds of capacity enhancement (extension of trains and platforms...), as well as all those extensions...
And the Beckton branch, in particular, took even longer to take off (and arguably still is not close to making the most of its potential). Arguably the Poplar-Stratford branch is less used than it might be, too - again related to the still incomplete redevelopment of some of the ex-industrial areas that surround some parts of the line.
Whereas; the cablecar....goes from nowhere to nowhere. Well, not quite, but pretty much. It doesn't provide new transport links, and it also doesn't have the capacity (or the scope for expansion) to undertake a great increase in ridership. It's a tourist attraction, pure and simple. And, because of its location, not a particularly convincing one (yes, it's fun to ride on, but still....)
The DLR was and is something else entirely - a vital part not just of the transport infrastructure, but a key element of the redevelopment of the wider Docklands area. No comparison.
(I remember that train crash, hanging off the viaduct - I think it was just before the railway opened to the public - and it was at the original Island Gardens station)
But more importantly: the DLR linked potential new workplaces with the rest of the London Transport network - it's easy to forget just how difficult to reach the Isle of Dogs was before the DLR: the Docklands Clipper bus (from Mile End) was a recent (mid-1980s, also funded by the London Docklands Development Corporation) innovation that penetrated the middle of the peninsula, along the newly constructed "red brick road". It's also easy to forget just how little there was on the Island in those years after the docks had closed.... the degree of development of housing, workplaces, and leisure facilities has been immense.
Of course this development had to take place for the DLR to increase its passenger ridership, which in turn demanded several rounds of capacity enhancement (extension of trains and platforms...), as well as all those extensions...
And the Beckton branch, in particular, took even longer to take off (and arguably still is not close to making the most of its potential). Arguably the Poplar-Stratford branch is less used than it might be, too - again related to the still incomplete redevelopment of some of the ex-industrial areas that surround some parts of the line.
Whereas; the cablecar....goes from nowhere to nowhere. Well, not quite, but pretty much. It doesn't provide new transport links, and it also doesn't have the capacity (or the scope for expansion) to undertake a great increase in ridership. It's a tourist attraction, pure and simple. And, because of its location, not a particularly convincing one (yes, it's fun to ride on, but still....)
The DLR was and is something else entirely - a vital part not just of the transport infrastructure, but a key element of the redevelopment of the wider Docklands area. No comparison.
(I remember that train crash, hanging off the viaduct - I think it was just before the railway opened to the public - and it was at the original Island Gardens station)
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
And I seem to recall that, like with the collision a few years ago, the train in question was being manually driven at the time rather than being under automatic control.
I agree with several previous suggestions on here - the cable car should be marketed on the tourist aspects. Maybe they could even adopt that word "Dangleway" as part of the marketing; it has quite a nice ring to it...
I'm not sure the sponsors would like being associated with the "Emirates Dangleway".
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I'll continue to call it the Dangleway, just as the blogger Diamond Geezer does, for the same reason he does.
It's a joke name for a joke piece of infrastructure.
Comparing the cable car to the early DLR is nonsensical. The DLR was built as part of the regeneration of Docklands, it always had a clear purpose, it always took people between places they wanted to go. The cable car doesn't do anything of the sort and wouldn't even if it was integrated into the Travelcard system. On event days you may be able to see the benefit in getting people from North Greenwich to the Godawful Excel centre, but at the rest of the time who is needing to go from a windswept soulless plaza in North Greenwich to a windswept soulless plaza in Royal Victoria?
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I never even think of the Emirates name with it, I only ever think in terms of "the cable car"...
stuart
Member
I think the problem with this system is that it has no clear identity of purpose. Is it a tourist attraction - or is it a commuter link?
If it's a tourist attraction then it needs to be marketed as such, the fare is very reasonable, and people should stop whingeing about how many commuters don't use it. There's a similar system in Singapore which was one of the most memorable highlights of my visit there a few years ago.
If it's a commuter transport option, then ticketing needs to be fully integrated into the Oyster/Travelcard set-up with appropriate OSI as others have said. Reduce the cost and concentrate on getting "bums on seats".
The problem at the moment is that the system doesn't know which of these options it's trying to be - and has ended up being neither. Someone needs to make their mind up which it is and give it a firm shove one way or the other.
If it's a tourist attraction then it needs to be marketed as such, the fare is very reasonable, and people should stop whingeing about how many commuters don't use it. There's a similar system in Singapore which was one of the most memorable highlights of my visit there a few years ago.
If it's a commuter transport option, then ticketing needs to be fully integrated into the Oyster/Travelcard set-up with appropriate OSI as others have said. Reduce the cost and concentrate on getting "bums on seats".
The problem at the moment is that the system doesn't know which of these options it's trying to be - and has ended up being neither. Someone needs to make their mind up which it is and give it a firm shove one way or the other.
Robertj21a
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But that one from Singapore, which I've also been on, goes over to the major resort of Sentosa. Not only do many thousands of locals use Sentosa as their main place to go for any relaxation but the cable car base is also far better positioned than the one in London. Their weather is usually much better too !
Robert
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