Online reservations system broken

[Haywain]

But able to offer the full range of Advance fares, including those which would otherwise still be available for travel today?

Advance fares are always 'subject to availability' and, in any event, won't be available on a train after departure.

 

[cheshlanc]

None. You're expected to arrive an indeterminate amount of time in advance for your train so you have time to purchase your ticket. Avanti might give you discretionary compensation though.

Thankfully I didn't have to see if they would let me off as it happened!

You could definitely buy onboard due to the extraordinary circumstances, with no suitable ticket purchasing facilities at the station.

This was my first thought but then I realised they would probably say I hadn't allowed for enough time anyway as I arrived at the station about 5 mins before my train was due.

Suitable ticket purchasing facilities includes a ticket office, which was open.

It would have been hard to prove that the queue was too long anyway.

But able to offer the full range of Advance fares, including those which would otherwise still be available for travel today?

I was purchasing an Off Peak return which wasn't possible either from the Avanti website.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On most of the WCML you could get one by forcing non reservable trains to be used, though you'd struggle between Oxenholme and Carlisle as there aren't any.

 

[voyagerdude220]

But able to offer the full range of Advance fares, including those which would otherwise still be available for travel today?

Whilst the disruption occurred, Advance tickets were not able to be sold at all, both online and at Stations. (including TVMs and Ticket Offices)

 

[Watershed]

I was affected by this today, arriving to catch my train to work I found that I was unable to buy a ticket online or at the Avanti ticket machine at the station. Thankfully a kind fellow commuter let me skip a place in the queue (he wanted a later train) and I managed to buy a ticket at the ticket office in time to catch my train. What would my rights have been if the queue had been longer and I wasn't able to buy a ticket before my train left?

Unfortunately as there were other ticketing facilities available, you could not lawfully have boarded the train.

The rail industry (based on the NRCoT and Byelaws) expects you to arrive an indeterminate amount of time before the train departs, if you want to buy a ticket at the station. It is seemingly irrelevant whether the normal facilities are in working order as long as some ticketing facilities still exist.

It's symbolic of the contemptuous attitude the industry has against its customers.

How are they being overcharged? Advance fares can never be guaranteed. Whether they are removed from sale by error or by strategy is neither here nor there.

It is still perfectly possible to be overcharged through the (ostensible) non-availability of TOC specific walk-up tickets. For example, "TPE only" tickets between Preston and Lancaster.

 

[AdamWW]

Advance fares are always 'subject to availability' and, in any event, won't be available on a train after departure.

They are but I don't think it's unreasonable to complain when the reason for lack of availability is the industry's incompetence rather than a deliberate decision.

Particularly in cases where walk-up tickets are reliably available up to the time of departure and where the lack of single walk-up tickets at reasonable prices means that once you've got an advance ticket out you're rather committed to the idea when returning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jun 2026 ==

How are they being overcharged? Advance fares can never be guaranteed. Whether they are removed from sale by error or by strategy is neither here nor there.

That's an opinion. And not one I share.

If I reasonably expect my train to have advance fares available just before departure and if the only reason it doesn't is an industry failure I'd say I'd been overcharged.

If I buy a cinema ticket and find out that due to a bug the ticket machine offered and sold me tickets at higher prices than everyone else watching the same film, I'd count that as being overcharged even though the cinema can legally offer whatever prices it feels like. I'd be a bit surprised to find the cinema trying to argue otherwise too.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's an opinion. And not one I share.

If I reasonably expect my train to have advance fares available just before departure and if the only reason it doesn't is an industry failure I'd say I'd been overcharged.

Overcharging is illegal in some cases. What has happened here is not, which is the context in which the question was asked.

You have no reasonable expectation that a TOC will offer any Advance fare that you could advance in law. It's too bad if they aren't on sale, whether that is because they have been removed because they'd like to charge you more money or because someone forgot to load them.

 

[AdamWW]

Overcharging is illegal in some cases. What has happened here is not, which is the context in which the question was asked.

You have no reasonable expectation that a TOC will offer any Advance fare that you could advance in law. It's too bad if they aren't on sale, whether that is because they have been removed because they'd like to charge you more money or because someone forgot to load them.

I think we both agree that this little oversight hasn't caused them to break the law.

If I missed the context, then my apologies.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think we both agree that this little oversight hasn't caused them to break the law.

If I missed the context, then my apologies.

Well quite. Of course I agree this has caused many passengers to pay more than they ought to have! And is bad (and very very embarrassingly incompetent).

 

[ainsworth74]

And is bad (and very very embarrassingly incompetent).

I wonder if there are any friendly journalists who we might be able to tempt into writing a story about the subject? Surely it has all the hallmarks of a good story? Beats up on the industry, has gross incompetence involved and passengers probably got overcharged a considerable sum of money as a result. Ticks all the boxes?

 

[AlterEgo]

I wonder if there are any friendly journalists who we might be able to tempt into writing a story about the subject? Surely it has all the hallmarks of a good story? Beats up on the industry, has gross incompetence involved and passengers probably got overcharged a considerable sum of money as a result. Ticks all the boxes?

Gareth Corfield might be interested, now you mention it. He has followed this forum before and may well lurk here, I think. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/g/ga-ge/gareth-corfield/

 

[Wallsendmag]

LNER TVMs were still working apparently so looks like it only affected the newish API and not the broker.

 

[Adam Williams]

Last time it happened the broker was unaffected as well. That said I'm surprised there's anything still using the broker now? The other things I was aware of was Fujitsu kit...

 

[Wallsendmag]

Last time it happened the broker was unaffected as well. That said I'm surprised there's anything still using the broker now? The other things I was aware of was Fujitsu kit...

They use a Fujitsu journey planner(at the moment)

 

[Adam Williams]

They use a Fujitsu journey planner(at the moment)

Ah right, that explains it

 

[Watershed]

LNER TVMs were still working apparently so looks like it only affected the newish API and not the broker.

The broker itself is very close to retirement, though that date itself has been pushed out multiple times.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The broker itself is very close to retirement, though that date itself has been pushed out multiple times.

I know I'm keeping a very close eye on that. One of the thousand and one TVM items on my to do/watch list

 

[Kilopylae]

The broker itself is very close to retirement, though that date itself has been pushed out multiple times.

Great that the problem was less widespread in 2023 when some still used the broker, but they've since forced retailers to put their eggs in one basket (presumably for reliability and security!), before dropping said basket.