Harlequinuk
On Moderation
Living in Southern region, i would love to know why the only coaching stock on the coast is either mk2 (To Eastbourne) or mk3 into Brighton? And why no DVT?
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One for the knowledgeable i hope (coaching stock)
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Gloster
Veteran Member
I am slightly baffled. Virtually everything on the South Coast is EMU of a later generation and of different families to the BR Mark 2 and 3. DVT only worked with a loco-hauled rake of passenger coaches: the loco hauled it in one direction and then pushed it in the other with the driver in the DVT, which was now leading.
Harlequinuk
On Moderation
Only mk3 coaches are cleared for working into Brighton, not newer, and mk2 into Eastbourne. Which limits any loco hauled *anything*
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Can you clarify what you mean, please?
Do you mean the "generation" of EMUs in current operation on those routes? Post 2, Gloster has already answered that.
Or, do you mean charter Loco Hauled Coaching Stock? West Coastway sees:
- VSOE pullmans (1928, 1932, 1951 vintage). Top and Tailed by class 67s for operational convenience.
- Mk1 or Mk2 a/c rakes used with the steam hauled charters routed this way. Class 47 or 57 on rear (provides hotel power, operational practicality).
No need / benefit of using a non powered DVT.
And many of the West Coastway charters come down from Victoria via Horsham.
I am wracking brains to think whether any charters in past 2 years reached the coast via the Mid Sussex.
I cannot think of more than four which used the Portsmouth Direct Line during the past 2 years.
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Harlequinuk
On Moderation
Its a question as to why nothing newer than old mk3s cant run here?? Say a 67 with mk4 stock? Not about EMu`s or anything multi
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Swing link restrictions, on third rail?
Or, the stock availability and decisions for the operators with commercially viable charters down these parts?
Goodwood events provide Belmond with annually repeatable revenue. But what else is big enough to secure the demand?
Steam Dreams simply pass through the West Coastway, it's not the destination.
Railway Touring Company (bar Flying Scotsman's centenary charter trip to Portsmouth) pass through as well.
Gloster
Veteran Member
It is quite possibly something to do with clearance of the third rail. I suspect that at Brighton some of the curves are so tight in places that they have to avoid having Mark III with the underfloor skirt in case it bashed the juice rail, or it might just be straightforward track geometry. Eastbourne is simpler so it is presumably possible to handle Mark III without that risk. Mark III coaches and juice rails have never been good friends.
It might also be that it is just not worth the effort and cost in clearing the line for the coaches if they would rarely appear.
It might also be that it is just not worth the effort and cost in clearing the line for the coaches if they would rarely appear.
Mark 3 coaches got cleared for a part of the Southern network that had previously not seen them when Steam Dreams used LSL's 'Intercity' charter set back in 2022. Essentially they had never previously needed to clear the relevant routes before.
Mk3 based 442 units ran to Eastbourne for a number of years.
Harlequinuk
On Moderation
But even now, mk3`s arnt cleared for Eastbourne
Class15
Established Member
That’s slightly surprising considering 442s (Mk3 derived EMUs) worked to Eastbourne for a number of years.
Since there are no plans to operate regular services using Mk4,5or 5a stock anywhere near the South Coast and no charter operators use them (correct me if I’m wrong) there’s no need to clear the routes for them.
Class15
Established Member
Isn’t the Mk5a maintenance depot for Chiltern at Eastleigh?
Harlequinuk
On Moderation
Theres nothing newer than a mk3 route cleared for the south of england
And who might operate one?
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Is it not the swing links on the suspension which limit the use of Mk3 stock in the 3rd rail areas, not the cover around the underframe equipment? Only short swing link fitted stock can operate in these areas and most Mk 3s have the long swing link?
Sun Chariot
Established Member
Post 6. What's driving the revenue/demand to use Mk3/4/5 down to, or along, the south coast?
Mark 3s weren't historically cleared for Guildford to Redhill either but they were cleared when LSL actually wanted to run them on that line.
There is no point doing clearance work until someone actually needs it.
True - had forgotten that, but that’s going to have no implications for Eastbourne.
43096
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If there’s no requirement for such vehicles to go there, they won’t be cleared “just in case”. And you can’t just assume a Mark 3 is fine just because a 442 is.
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