Once/Twice A Day InterCity Services.

[miklcct]

Is it? Would have thought that skip-stopping or no longer calling at smaller intermediate stations would optimise track capacity; not so good though if anyone ever does need to use those smaller stations (thinking of the likes of Wedgwood and Barlaston here).

Stopping at all stations can deliver a higher frequency and absolute capacity than skip stopping, because the time needed to accelerate / decelerate a train is shorter at lower speed. However, if the amount of passengers is so great that it can fill trains to track capacity even when small stations are skipped, it's more economical to run express and close the small stations.

 

[TheBigD]

You assume that LNER badly need those extra units, which they don't and even if they wanted to use them to increase frequency, bottlenecks and platforming constraints exist. The extra cost is justified long as there is a small but solid market for those extensions, they run twice a day most of them so the money is well used to provide convenience. The market who uses them would almost certainly fly instead if they had to change at Edinburgh.

LNER do have a need for extra trains, hence them inviting expressions of interest in up to 10 additional trains.
Modern Railways (Dec 2021) reported that CAF, Hitachi, and CRRC of China are all bidding.

 

[hexagon789]

Stopping at all stations can deliver a higher frequency and absolute capacity than skip stopping, because the time needed to accelerate / decelerate a train is shorter at lower speed. However, if the amount of passengers is so great that it can fill trains to track capacity even when small stations are skipped, it's more economical to run express and close the small stations.

That's going to work really well on 390/400 mile-odd trips from London up to Scotland!

I'm sure some people may be quite pleased at having a direct train from Finsbury Park to Musselburgh or South Hampstead to Rutherglen; I suspect the majority of people however would prefer an overall journey time that is reasonably competitive with air, coach and car travel.

 

[tbtc]

Clockface timetables are nice when you have the infrastructure to run them but they are not always a good use of resources. It also means having to run everything semi fast and stopping at alternating stations, reducing journey times for the bulk of traffic which only needs London - Peterborough/York/Edinburgh or Leeds - Peterborough/London

Ideally, but on a two track railway, like the ECML that you mention, there's no room for one train to stop at all of the stations you've not mentioned (Grantham, Newark, Retford, Doncaster, Durham, Morpeth, Alnmouth, Berwick, Dunbar etc) since it'll stop anything "fast" from running non stop services from London to York etc at any "fast" speed

You can run a lot more "semi fast" services per hour than trying to have some "fast" and some "slow" services (or you do what BR did on a number of lines and close lots of smaller stations, of course)

LNER do have a need for extra trains, hence them inviting expressions of interest in up to 10 additional trains.
Modern Railways (Dec 2021) reported that CAF, Hitachi, and CRRC of China are all bidding.

That was my understanding - thanks for confirming

 

[miklcct]

That's going to work really well on 390/400 mile-odd trips from London up to Scotland!

I'm sure some people may be quite pleased at having a direct train from Finsbury Park to Musselburgh or South Hampstead to Rutherglen; I suspect the majority of people however would prefer an overall journey time that is reasonably competitive with air, coach and car travel.

I'm sure some people may be quite pleased after seeing a non-stop train passing through the station without standing passengers, waiting for half an hour for a stopper to come after stopping at a dozen stations before, and squeezing into the stopper which is full of standing passengers.

Ideally, but on a two track railway, like the ECML that you mention, there's no room for one train to stop at all of the stations you've not mentioned (Grantham, Newark, Retford, Doncaster, Durham, Morpeth, Alnmouth, Berwick, Dunbar etc) since it'll stop anything "fast" from running non stop services from London to York etc at any "fast" speed

You can run a lot more "semi fast" services per hour than trying to have some "fast" and some "slow" services (or you do what BR did on a number of lines and close lots of smaller stations, of course)

The problem in running "semi fast" services on a two-track railway is that local travel will be cut off, since no trains stop at all stations. I believe it's currently the case on the South West Main Line where there aren't any passing tracks west of Brockenhurst, so there isn't a stopper all the way west. For example, under the current timetable, passengers from Holton Heath to Parkstone has no choice but facing a long wait at Poole even on a Saturday when 2 trains per hour run through the section, as only one stop at Holton Heath and the other stop at Parkstone.

 

[hexagon789]

I'm sure some people may be quite pleased after seeing a non-stop train passing through the station without standing passengers, waiting for half an hour for a stopper to come after stopping at a dozen stations before, and squeezing into the stopper which is full of standing passengers.

But you don't have a clear cut situation like like, plenty of the time it is the local services in the middle of the day which are carting dresh air while the long-distance services are full and standing.

 

[miklcct]

But you don't have a clear cut situation like like, plenty of the time it is the local services in the middle of the day which are carting dresh air while the long-distance services are full and standing.

In such case close the local station and busititude them in order to free up track capacity to run more long distance express services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In such case close the local station and busititude them in order to free up track capacity to run more long distance express services.

On the mainlines Beeching basically already did this.

 

[lachlan]

In such case close the local station and busititude them in order to free up track capacity to run more long distance express services.

Or improve the infrastructure (this problem is exactly why HS2 should be built in full to release capacity on the ECML). There is no desire to close intermediate stops, in fact, in Scotland the opposite is happening with the construction of Reston and East Linton.

 

[takno]

Or improve the infrastructure (this problem is exactly why HS2 should be built in full to release capacity on the ECML). There is no desire to close intermediate stops, in fact, in Scotland the opposite is happening with the construction of Reston and East Linton.

As a reasonably heavy user of ECML services from Edinburgh to the south, I'd be more than happy to see several of the intermediate stops disappear, and find Reston and East Linton heavily unwelcome. Transport Scotland may be burning money on these white elephants instead of focusing on actually providing a service on Scotrail, but that shouldn't be taken as any sign that they are particularly welcome, useful or a good idea.

 

[swt_passenger]

On the mainlines Beeching basically already did this.

…and west of Poole is a bit of a stretch to consider a mainline. I suspect it’s service pattern in the pre-Covid timetable is fine.

 

[Acfb]

As a reasonably heavy user of ECML services from Edinburgh to the south, I'd be more than happy to see several of the intermediate stops disappear, and find Reston and East Linton heavily unwelcome. Transport Scotland may be burning money on these white elephants instead of focusing on actually providing a service on Scotrail, but that shouldn't be taken as any sign that they are particularly welcome, useful or a good idea.

Reston is a more dubious reopening than East Linton IMO as East Linton at least fits the template of recent reopenings such as the Borders railway in terms of having an existing parallel half hourly bus service and some established commuter demand even though it's a small place.

Reston on the other hand will only mainly serve Eyemouth and Duns will continue to have better access to Berwick.


I'm not even opposed to closing Drem once East Linton opens as East Linton will extract a large chunk of passengers from there.