On board excess query.

[Matt Taylor]

A passeneger holds a Euston to Wigan Off Peak Return and boards a peak service (SVR not valid). The guard checks tickets and charges the customer for a new ticket (Standard Open Single Euston-Wigan), the passeneger says she'll get off at Crewe and wait until her ticket becomes valid before continuing the journey and should thus only pay the difference in the fare as far as Crewe but the guard still insisted she pays the SOS fare to Wigan.

Doesn't sound right to me, anyone know if the guard has overcharged the customer?

 

[yorkie]

They should charge the excess, not a new ticket!

If the passenger chooses not to use that ticket, and instead purchases a new ticket, then the ticket can be issued to the first calling point that the train calls at, if the passenger chooses to get off there.

I hope you got the guards name, but if not then the day and headcode or time of the train should be sufficient. The guard needs to be re-trained. Was this today?

 

[Matt Taylor]

No idea, this is a situation related by a passenger and happened a while ago. It didn't seem right to me but I don't know enough about on excesses or VT's policy to be able to say whether the guard was right.

 

[Ferret]

I recall VT issuing guidance to TMs on this matter. Both for Advance tickets on the wrong train and for SVRs being used during periods when they were restricted we were to treat the pax as "no ticket held". Clearly whoever issued that guidance (I'm talking about 3 years ago here btw) hadn't read the CoC!

 

[tony_mac]

It possibly should have been an excess to Wigan (the journey shown on the ticket).
How he can even try and claim that they must buy an anytime single to the original destination is beyond me; it would have been better to have no ticket at all - that can't be right.

If it's evening then I think that an over-distance excess to Lancaster would also do it, but I guess that needs to be done before boarding.

 

[janb]

If it's evening then I think that an over-distance excess to Lancaster would also do it, but I guess that needs to be done before boarding.

You can't break journey on the outward portion of a Euston - Lancaster SVR either. (Not that there are barriers at WGN even though its a perfect candidate)

Obviously the rules for excessing on board are different when the customer has had opportunity to buy. I wish I had access to FRPP at home...but anyway clearly going to be more severe than had they done it at the booking office beforehand. I was under impression it was a new ticket in that situation, but can't remember without checking.

 

[mathmo]

As yorkie has said, the correct thing for the guard to do is to issue an excess for the ticket. The relevant part of the Conditions of Carriage is as follows:

12. Restrictions on when you can travel
Restrictions apply to the use of some tickets (including those bought with a Railcard) such as the dates, days, and times when you can use them, and the trains in which they can be used. These restrictions are set out in the notices and other publications of the Train Companies whose trains you are entitled to use. If a restriction applies and the ticket you are using is not valid for the train you are travelling in, then:
(a) you will be liable to pay an excess fare (the difference between the price
paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the lowest priced ticket available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to travel in that
train for the journey shown on the ticket); or
(b) in the case of some types of discounted tickets (as indicated in the notices and publications) the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply.

(b) generally applies to Advance fares only, so (a) applies and the guard should charge the excess: this should be for Euston - Wigan (i.e. the passenger cannot excess it shorter). This would be £235.00 minus £66.40 equals £168.60, so actually the SOS would be cheaper at £117.50, and a half-decent guard would give the passenger the choice (and you could just buy the SOS to Crewe at £95 instead). (Prices from NFM03.)

 

[Matt Taylor]

Except that I'm not sure if it was a Euston-Wigan SVR or the other way round, if it was a Wigan-Euston SVR only the return portion would require an upgrade so the excess would be half the difference in the fare.

 

[John @ home]

Except that I'm not sure if it was a Euston-Wigan SVR or the other way round, if it was a Wigan-Euston SVR only the return portion would require an upgrade so the excess would be half the difference in the fare.

I think this misunderstands the position on excess fares.

Where a ticket is excessed to a more expensive route for one leg of a return journey, only half the difference is payable. For example a SVR London - Sheffield via Chesterfield costs £79. A SVR London - Sheffield route Any Permitted, valid via Retford, costs £115.30. If a passenger wants to go via Retford on one leg of the journey they need to pay half the difference, that's £18.15.

On the other hand, a passenger with a £79 SVR London - Sheffield via Chesterfield who wants to travel at a time when the SVR is not valid can only excess the SVR to a SOR. When changing the type of ticket the full difference between the fares is charged. The SOR is £155.50, so the excess is £75.50.

Unfortunately these rules appear to be no longer in the public domain. If anyone can find them, please tell us.

John