Omitting stations en route

[tigerroar]

I was on the 1953 Paddington to Hereford train last night, despite being announced that it would stop at Worcester Foregate Street some way into the journey they announced that they wouldn't indeed be stopping there and passengers would need to alight at Worcester Shrub Hill instead. Why would they do this?

 

[fkofilee]

Delayed running potentially. GTR do it a lot if a train is quite late and turnaround times will be missed at its destination.

 

[tigerroar]

It was late-ish running. At Paddingtom RTT had it down as Platform 1 even though it hadn't been announced and there wasn't anything at the platform until about 1950. They said that it was late out of the depot whilst en route. Oddly RTT suggests that it did stop at Foregate Street https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P75692/2023-08-22#allox_id=0

 

[jfollows]

It was late-ish running. At Paddingtom RTT had it down as Platform 1 even though it hadn't been announced and there wasn't anything at the platform until about 1950. They said that it was late out of the depot whilst en route. Oddly RTT suggests that it did stop at Foregate Street https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P75692/2023-08-22#allox_id=0

Arrive 22:03 depart 22:03, so I don’t think it did stop!

 

[greatkingrat]

Seems a bit strange though, the train was only a minute or so late, and it sits at Great Malvern for 14 minutes anyway, so no obvious reason to skip Foregate Street.

Maybe there was a problem with the station, eg lighting failure?

 

[SargeNpton]

TRUST suggests that there was a staffing issue at Foregate Street.

 

[ainsworth74]

TRUST suggests that there was a staffing issue at Foregate Street.

I was wondering if the issue was the station had had to be closed early due to a shortage of staff rather than an issue with the service itself.

 

[FGW_DID]

No dispatch staff available after a certain time therefore GWR trains were not to call.

 

[tigerroar]

What are dispatch staff? Do they need them at every station? There didn't appear to be anyone at Worcestershire Parkway where I alighted?

 

[jfollows]

What are dispatch staff? Do they need them at every station? There didn't appear to be anyone at Worcestershire Parkway where I alighted?

Some platforms at some stations with some train operating companies require trains to be dispatched using specific staff trained and based at that station.
The combinations can be various - can be all trains at all platforms or just some trains at some platforms.
Looks like GWR requires them at Worcester Foregate Street but not at Worcestershire Parkway.

I think Avanti needs them at Wilmslow on the Styal Line platforms 1 and 2, but possibly not on 3 and 4 although they’re normally provided for all four platforms.

Often busier stations, but also those with unusual layouts or curved platforms might require them.

 

[FGW_DID]

Some Stations have Dispatchers but if none are available then the train can be self dispatched by the guard (eg Newbury).

Worcester FS requires dispatch staff to be present (curvature of the platform I believe) and if non are available then self dispatch is not allowed hence why the trains will not call.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Some platforms at some stations with some train operating companies require trains to be dispatched using specific staff trained and based at that station.
The combinations can be various - can be all trains at all platforms or just some trains at some platforms.
Looks like GWR requires them at Worcester Foregate Street but not at Worcestershire Parkway.

I think Avanti needs them at Wilmslow on the Styal Line platforms 1 and 2, but possibly not on 3 and 4 although they’re normally provided for all four platforms.

Often busier stations, but also those with unusual layouts or curved platforms might require them.

Worcester foregate has a curve which means the guard cannot see the whole train whilst dispatching, so especially for a 9 car, dispatch staff would be required.

 

[tigerroar]

Is it not feasible for a dispatcher to jump on the train at Shrub Hill and then act as a dispatcher at Foregate Street?

 

[jfollows]

I was on a 50-hauled Mark2 service which left Worcester FS for Hereford and had an open door ripped off because the train was incorrectly dispatched so I can believe it (the platform staff dispatch requirement, that is) - before central door locking of course too. Driver & guard unaware but my travelling companion was an off-duty guard so he informed the train guard! Or maybe he “guarded” the gaping hole and sent me to get the train guard, I can’t remember.

 

[_toommm_]

Is it not feasible for a dispatcher to jump on the train at Shrub Hill and then act as a dispatcher at Foregate Street?

Dispatch staff have to be trained for the station(s) they work at. They need to know where the OFF indicators are (if applicable), what the feathers mean, which signal applies to each platform etc.

 

[ainsworth74]

Dispatch staff have to be trained for the station(s) they work at. They need to know where the OFF indicators are (if applicable), what the feathers mean, which signal applies to each platform etc.

Plus if you nab the dispatcher from Shrub Hill then Shrub Hill would have to close to services which require dispatch!

 

[Horizon22]

Dispatch staff have to be trained for the station(s) they work at. They need to know where the OFF indicators are (if applicable), what the feathers mean, which signal applies to each platform etc.

I also think Shrub Hill can potentially self-dispatch on some platforms. The curve on Platform 1 at Foregate Street makes that impossible!

 

[185]

Avanti have on multiple occasions shut Warrington BQ and Wigan NW due to no dispatchers - prior to FirstGroup arriving there were GPR staff on overnight, however if there's a late runner - it now automatically gets a not-to-call order. Seen their Prestons, ATWs Chester Manchester etc being sent through non-stop.

 

[GoneSouth]

Surely there must be unstaffed stations on curves? Or are we saying there are no stations with curves, that are unstaffed, and have 9 car trains call at them?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Genuine question, but presumably a despatcher can see the whole platform prior to despatch? So why can't the guard stand there and despatch from a door there?

 

[Jim]

Genuine question, but presumably a despatcher can see the whole platform prior to despatch? So why can't the guard stand there and despatch from a door there?

They cover different parts of the train so it can all be viewed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2023 ==

Surely there must be unstaffed stations on curves? Or are we saying there are no stations with curves, that are unstaffed, and have 9 car trains call at them?

Hungerford on the Up strikes me as a good example. But in Worcester FS case, there is also a starting signal to view, which I don't think has an OFF indicator provided.

 

[Deafdoggie]

They cover different parts of the train so it can all be viewed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2023 ==

Basically it's a two-man job?

 

[Horizon22]

Basically it's a two-man job?

It could be up to a 4 person job depending on if you’re dispatching a 10+ car train with a guard on a curved London terminus. Or it could be a one person job with in-cab CCTV or a dead straight platform with shorter stock for guard only dispatch

Entirely dependent on the local circumstances and the TOC’s operating procedures.