OLE 25kv on WCML

[MarkWi72]

I'm not too well-versed on OLE, but wonder why it seemed to differ across the WCML . Is it mark 1 south of Crewe/Manchester and Birmingham loop/Grand Junction? Mark 3 Preston-Glasgow? Was this price or what was being manufactured at a certain time?

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm not too well-versed on OLE, but wonder why it seemed to differ across the WCML . Is it mark 1 south of Crewe/Manchester and Birmingham loop/Grand Junction? Mark 3 Preston-Glasgow? Was this price or what was being manufactured at a certain time?

It was done at different times. Crewe to Manchester first (1960), then Liverpool - Crewe (1962), then Crewe - Euston (incl West Mids) (1966), then Weaver to Glasgow in 1974.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Timing is everything. Costs and advances in design and materials. Weights were used to tension in early days. In Preston in the Fylde junction area you can now see tensorex drums or auto-tensioner. There is also a lot more 4 track south of Crewe etc.

 

[McRhu]

Much of the original MKIIIa equipment on the WCML has now been replaced by UK1, just to further complicate things.

 

[Elecman]

And all the original compound catenaryfrom the original 1960s wiring has been removed

 

[McRhu]

I often think that our OLE has become a real hotchpotch... Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 in its variants, UK1, SiCAT, Series 1, Series 2 and others. As every aesthete will testify, the zenith of OLE design was MK3.

 

[MarkWi72]

Which is the Mk III?

 

[MarkWi72]

https://www.bathnes.gov.uk/sites/default/files/sitedocuments/Planning-and-Building-Control/Planning/nr_a_guide_to_overhead_electrification.pdf

 

[McRhu]

Here's a pic (Wishaw). MKIII dates back to the late 60s and was (I believe) originally implemented on the Lea Valley line. The IIIa variant made some improvements and was used not only the WCML Weaver Junction - Glasgow project, but other suburban lines in the Glasgow area and the BedPan line I think. By the time the Ayr Line was wired and the ECML likewise, it had morphed into MKIIIb, but still substantially the same. Things didn't change until recently with the advent of Series 2 and Series 1 (Series 1 being used on the GWML).

 

[59CosG95]

Here's a pic (Wishaw). MKIII dates back to the late 60s and was (I believe) originally implemented on the Lea Valley line. The IIIa variant made some improvements and was used not only the WCML Weaver Junction - Glasgow project, but other suburban lines in the Glasgow area and the BedPan line I think. By the time the Ayr Line was wired and the ECML likewise, it had morphed into MKIIIb, but still substantially the same. Things didn't change until recently with the advent of Series 2 and Series 1 (Series 1 being used on the GWML).

To be pedantic, the Kings X - Hitchin part of the ECML, the Hertford Loop, the Northern City Line (Finsbury Park - Drayton Park), and Hitchin - Letchworth were all MkIIIa. The Braintree branch was also MkIIIa AIUI.

BedPan, the rest of the ECML, GEML from Colchester to Norwich, Carstairs - Waverley etc was all MkIIIb. The main change with IIIb (rather than IIIa) was the addition of bolted-base masts (rather than planted masts) to speed up and simplify construction. MkIIIc is identical to IIIb, but replaces the problematic AWAC catenary (prone to galvanic corrosion) with a copper catenary. Bronze is now used pretty much across the board.

MkIIId is mainly used for renewals and emergency repairs, particularly on the ECML, but Airdrie - Bathgate was done with MkIIId throughout from new.

 

[Bald Rick]

To be pedantic, the Kings X - Hitchin part of the ECML, the Hertford Loop, the Northern City Line (Finsbury Park - Drayton Park), and Hitchin - Letchworth were all MkIIIa.

To out pedant your pedantry, it’s Hitchin - Royston that’s MkIIIa.

 

[59CosG95]

To out pedant your pedantry, it’s Hitchin - Royston that’s MkIIIa.

Goodness me, you're quite right! Long day...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I often think that our OLE has become a real hotchpotch... Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 in its variants, UK1, SiCAT, Series 1, Series 2 and others. As every aesthete will testify, the zenith of OLE design was MK3.

To add to the variety you can still see elements of the original 1930s LNER 1.5kV DC OHLE design on the GEML out of Liverpool St, and either side of Manchester Piccadilly (towards Altrincham and Glossop).
There are LNER-pattern masts visible in the undergrowth on the connecting lines around Manchester linked to the Woodhead scheme, including at Ashton Moss Jn on the line out to Stalybridge.
Plus there's the French LGV design on HS1 and Eurotunnel.
And yet there seems to be no trace of the original LB&SC OHLE system installed out of Victoria to East Croydon (1909-29).
Maybe the connoisseurs in the area can find some evidence.
This was a German (AEG) design at 6.6kV AC.

 

[McRhu]

To be pedantic, the Kings X - Hitchin part of the ECML, the Hertford Loop, the Northern City Line (Finsbury Park - Drayton Park), and Hitchin - Letchworth were all MkIIIa. The Braintree branch was also MkIIIa AIUI.

BedPan, the rest of the ECML, GEML from Colchester to Norwich, Carstairs - Waverley etc was all MkIIIb. The main change with IIIb (rather than IIIa) was the addition of bolted-base masts (rather than planted masts) to speed up and simplify construction. MkIIIc is identical to IIIb, but replaces the problematic AWAC catenary (prone to galvanic corrosion) with a copper catenary. Bronze is now used pretty much across the board.

MkIIId is mainly used for renewals and emergency repairs, particularly on the ECML, but Airdrie - Bathgate was done with MkIIId throughout from new.

Interesting thank you. Was Airdrie-Bathgate the last scheme to use MKIII OLE?

 

[mr_jrt]

And yet there seems to be no trace of the original LB&SC OHLE system installed out of Victoria to East Croydon (1909-29).
Maybe the connoisseurs in the area can find some evidence.

Enjoy https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/early-electrification-scheme-remnants.152978/

 

[Bedpan]

It was done at different times. Crewe to Manchester first (1960), then Liverpool - Crewe (1962), then Crewe - Euston (incl West Mids) (1966), then Weaver to Glasgow in 1974.

All the info I can find confirms the above but I seem to remember (although I was only a child a the time) that for a time loco changes from diesel to electric at Rugby. Was the line energised south of Crewe in stages, or am I mistaken?

 

[Bald Rick]

All the info I can find confirms the above but I seem to remember (although I was only a child a the time) that for a time loco changes from diesel to electric at Rugby. Was the line energised south of Crewe in stages, or am I mistaken?

Before my time, but I think that is correct.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

All the info I can find confirms the above but I seem to remember (although I was only a child a the time) that for a time loco changes from diesel to electric at Rugby. Was the line energised south of Crewe in stages, or am I mistaken?

The first extension of electrification south of Crewe was to Nuneaton, and loco changes took place just south of the station before the 4-track section became 3-track.
That was 1964/5-time.
I don't recall a change point at Rugby or further south, before the main line went live in 1966.
The Birmingham loop and the North Staffs route went live in 1967.

 

[hexagon789]

All the info I can find confirms the above but I seem to remember (although I was only a child a the time) that for a time loco changes from diesel to electric at Rugby. Was the line energised south of Crewe in stages, or am I mistaken?

Southwards from Crewe the OLE was energised first to Stafford, then Nuneaton, then Rugby and finally all the way to Euston.

While not always the case in practice, trains from Liverpool/Manchester were to be worked be worked by electric as far as possible during the various stages of electrification, so hauled by electric to the end of the then present extent of the OLE

 

[Merle Haggard]

Southwards from Crewe the OLE was energised first to Stafford, then Nuneaton, then Rugby and finally all the way to Euston.

While not always the case in practice, trains from Liverpool/Manchester were to be worked be worked by electric as far as possible during the various stages of electrification, so hauled by electric to the end of the then present extent of the OLE

... and trains to/from North Wales and to/from Warrington and beyond were also electric hauled South from Crewe to the changeover point. Diesel hauled trains under the wires were very rare. Coal and freight trains from the Midland main line were diverted via Mkt. Harbro' - Northampton and electric hauled Southwards to maximise electric loco. utilisation.

As an example, I travelled on the BR annual excursion from Euston and stations north to Crewe works and, one year, when I joined the train at Northampton it was headed by a 'Jubilee'. At Stafford, this was detached and replaced by an electric loco for the final stage to Crewe.

Bit different now, isn't it?

 

[Mag_seven]

And all the original compound catenary from the original 1960s wiring has been removed

There is still a short stretch between Newton and Uddingston - see this video from 10.09 to 10.40

 

[Revaulx]

Southwards from Crewe the OLE was energised first to Stafford, then Nuneaton, then Rugby and finally all the way to Euston.

While not always the case in practice, trains from Liverpool/Manchester were to be worked be worked by electric as far as possible during the various stages of electrification, so hauled by electric to the end of the then present extent of the OLE

All our journeys to London from Manchester prior to the full Picc-Euston route going all-electric were from Central to St Pancras.

 

[Bedpan]

Thanks for clarifying everybody! The funny thing is that when I looked on Google I couldn't find anything about the electrification steadily progressing southwards. It just says Crewe - Manchester 1960, Crewe - Liverpool 1962, Crewe London 1966.

All our journeys to London from Manchester prior to the full Picc-Euston route going all-electric were from Central to St Pancras.

Yes, I remember doing that too. It was probably 1965 when I would have been 14 and I was going to stay with an old school friend who had moved uop there. The plan was that I would go from Euston to Wilmslow (I think it was) and be met there, but I ended up going from St Pancras to Manchester Central (on what remains to this day one of the most exciting rail journeys I have ever been on, I had never been anywhere like the Peak District before), across to Piccadilly (I still remember the bus number as 93) and back down to Wilmslow where my friend and his mum were waiting for me. In reality I suppose that my dad who put me on the train at St Pancras had phoned his mum to let her know what was happening, and she had neem up tp the station to meet every train. Quite an adventure though and I'm not sure we'd be letting 14 year olds do it nowadays.
.

 

[deltic08]

All the info I can find confirms the above but I seem to remember (although I was only a child a the time) that for a time loco changes from diesel to electric at Rugby. Was the line energised south of Crewe in stages, or am I mistaken?

I am old enough to remember, and it was energised in sections Nuneaton, Rugby and Bletchley, Watford, Euston. I do remember the first electric passenger train into Euston was the 0410 arrival of the 1825 departure from Workington conveying sleeping cars from Barrow and Preston (those were the days). It left Workington behind a Britannia and presumably changed at Crewe. I am sure it was prior to the Summer 66 timetable. I only remember because I had family in Workington at that time. Anglo Scottish/NW trains were diesel or steam hauled throughout until Euston was energised and then changed at Crewe. Overnight trains had been using St Pancras to allow work on installation of overheads day and night.

 

[Revaulx]

Yes, I remember doing that too. It was probably 1965 when I would have been 14 and I was going to stay with an old school friend who had moved uop there. The plan was that I would go from Euston to Wilmslow (I think it was) and be met there, but I ended up going from St Pancras to Manchester Central (on what remains to this day one of the most exciting rail journeys I have ever been on, I had never been anywhere like the Peak District before), across to Piccadilly (I still remember the bus number as 93) and back down to Wilmslow where my friend and his mum were waiting for me. In reality I suppose that my dad who put me on the train at St Pancras had phoned his mum to let her know what was happening, and she had neem up tp the station to meet every train. Quite an adventure though and I'm not sure we'd be letting 14 year olds do it nowadays.

Although I was still in single figures, I likewise adored the bit of the journey through the Peak. The Euston line seemed terribly dull in comparison.

Our younger daughter got the train from Greenfield to Cambridge and back when she was 12 to visit her big sister a couple of years ago. Changing at Hudds, Leeds and Peterborough. She gets the train to school every day, so not without experience. Even so it was pretty impressive.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Although I was still in single figures, I likewise adored the bit of the journey through the Peak. The Euston line seemed terribly dull in comparison.

The best bit was that you were sat behind a "Peak" on full bore up to Peak Forest summit, and then coasted downhill for a good 20 miles to the Mersey/Ambergate.
I regularly used the 1700 Sunday Manchester-St Pancras which only stopped at Leicester (avoiding Derby station via Chaddesden sidings).
Another route with the character of that via Peak Forest (ie high on a shelf above a river) is the WCML through the Lune gorge.

The LMR kept a couple of Manchester services on the WCML route, but timekeeping was generally appalling - and no RTT to keep you informed of progress.
The sleeper ran (nominally non-stop) the whole length of the GC route from Manchester to Marylebone in the electrification years.
Liverpool and North Wales passengers had the worst deal as they had no real alternative to the WCML.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The StP - Manchester services were to an extent to relieve the WCML (there were also services from Paddington, for Birmingham and Liverpool) but there was also an element of replacing the GC line ones. It's hard to imagine now, leaving Piccadily (London Rd then!) for London calling at ... Sheffield.
I've mentioned on another thread the overnight trains that ran in BR days enabling the energetic spotter to have a full day shed bunking. One example was the 23.49 (ish) Manchester Victoria to St Pancras that ran via Dore South and called every station; arrived Wellingboro' about 03.19 (and then a long walk home). This was certainly running in 1968 but I am not sure why it ran from Vic; possibly Central closed at night?

 

[vvd]

https://www.bathnes.gov.uk/sites/default/files/sitedocuments/Planning-and-Building-Control/Planning/nr_a_guide_to_overhead_electrification.pdf

That is a brilliant read - thankyou!

 

[hexagon789]

Bit different now, isn't it?

Quite, though it's not all that long ago in relative terms that 390s were hauled by diesels to Holyhead, sort of continuing the old traditions

 

[hexagon789]

All our journeys to London from Manchester prior to the full Picc-Euston route going all-electric were from Central to St Pancras.

I know the Midland Pullman went that way of course and was supposed to be the fastest timing (not sure if that was ever or simply at that point in time), but weren't many services still running on the WCML during the electrification works simply they were slowed down by various p'way slacks and consequent extensions to journey time with recovery margins for engineering?