Oldest law in effect?

[telstarbox]

We sometimes hear of the RORA 1889 on the Disputes board, but are there laws older than this still in effect in the UK?

 

[AlterEgo]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Oldest+law+in+England

 

[thejuggler]

Listening to R4 today they were discussing sentencing guidelines as Judges make lots of errors. They need simplifying as errors can be troublesome to rectify and you can’t have a sentence increased if an error is made.

It was mentioned there are over 1,000, may even have been nearer 1500 pages of guidelines dating back to laws from the mid 1300s.

 

[HSTEd]

Well certain things are still crimes under common law.
Which in most cases means they have been crimes since time immemorial

 

[Dentonian]

We sometimes hear of the RORA 1889 on the Disputes board, but are there laws older than this still in effect in the UK?

The Highways Act, 1830 which outlaws Pavement cycling is still in effect. Oh! Hang on, its not still in effect obviously, but it still on the statute.

 

[pdeaves]

Well certain things are still crimes under common law.
Which in most cases means they have been crimes since time immemorial

Quite; I was just thinking 'do not murder' must be quite an old law!

 

[telstarbox]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Oldest+law+in+England

Thanks but that doesn't answer the question. Google is not the solution to everything.

 

[Abpj17]

Bills of Exchange Act 1882
National Debt Reduction Act 1786

to google to look properly...

apparently 1267 legislation still has unrepealed chapters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Marlborough so primary contenders are the distress act 1267 and the waste act 1267 (two other chapters were two to be repealed and in practice had been superseded)

see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Hen3cc1415/52/1 with the amusing note: The original text of this Act was not modern English.
and http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Hen3c23/52/23

as I knew two of the top of my head, I imagine there are dozens if not hundreds older than the OP

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks but that doesn't answer the question. Google is not the solution to everything.

But that is the oldest unrepealed law. It tells you which parts of the statute are still in force.

 

[thejuggler]

The right for landlords to double rent for tenants trespassing is from Landlord and Tenant Act 1730 and I have seen it quoted and used.

 

[furnessvale]

When I was involved in such things, the oldest in regular use from a criminal law viewpoint, was the Justice of the Peace Act 1361, concerning riot, disorderly behaviour etc. (may now be repealed).

 

[Barn]

The oldest statute law that I can find on Westlaw and LexisNexis (legal practitioner databases) is indeed the Statute of Marlborough 1267, as Abpj17 says.

Many 19th century statutes are still very relevant today (such as the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 and the Partnership Act 1890). The Vagrancy Act 1824 is still used.

There are lots of other statutes still on the books, although many are the constitutional statutes for organisations rather than Acts of true public application. So there are acts which created and regulated police forces, hospitals, universities, etc.

The Law Commission periodically prepares Statute Law (Repeals) Bills in order to clear the decks of old legislation which is now obsolete.

Probably the earliest statute I have ever had to 'use' professionally is the Bill of Rights 1688, when advising about parliamentary privilege.

HSTEd is quite correct to point out that focusing on statute law alone is only half the answer.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Well certain things are still crimes under common law.
Which in most cases means they have been crimes since time immemorial

yes, though the canon of Common Law is, by its very nature of a living body in continuing evolution. Its also sometimes given a bit of an overhaul and brought up to date. For example . . . .

Quite; I was just thinking 'do not murder' must be quite an old law!

the maze of Common Law relating to murder was consolidated and brought bang up to date by Sir Edward Coke in his "Institutes of the Laws of England".

In 1628 ! (tho published after his death)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Listening to R4 today they were discussing sentencing guidelines as Judges make lots of errors. They need simplifying as errors can be troublesome to rectify and you can’t have a sentence increased if an error is made.

many criminal appeals have been brought in the hope of reducing the sentence. Many fail. Sometimes the Court finds that the original sentence was inappropriate, and INCREASE the term.

 

[Barn]

yes, though the canon of Common Law is, by its very nature of a living body in continuing evolution. Its also sometimes given a bit of an overhaul and brought up to date.

Quite right, although technically the law isn't often updated (which would generally need legislative approval) but rather judges discover what the law has actually always been all along. It's a quaint but constitutionally important legal fiction.

 

[TheEdge]

I'd heard something somewhere about parts of a treason act from the 11/12th century still being technically current. Although that is probably urban myth.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd heard something somewhere about parts of a treason act from the 11/12th century still being technically current. Although that is probably urban myth.

There’s a Treason Act 1351 still on the statute books. You’re probably thinking of that.

 

[TheEdge]

apparently 1267 legislation still has unrepealed chapters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Marlborough so primary contenders are the distress act 1267 and the waste act 1267 (two other chapters were two to be repealed and in practice had been superseded)

see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Hen3cc1415/52/1 with the amusing note: The original text of this Act was not modern English.
and http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Hen3c23/52/23

Out of interest does anyone know what language that is? Is that just Old English, some mash up of Old English and some sort of proto-French or Vulgar or Medieval Latin?

 

[shredder1]

Apparently it used to be legal to shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow on a Sunday inside English city walls, not sure if this law has been repealed or not?

 

[DarloRich]

Apparently it used to be legal to shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow on a Sunday inside English city walls, not sure if this law has been repealed or not?

I think that is apocryphal. I heard a similar one about York and Scotsmen.

 

[DavidGrain]

As this is a Railway forum I will mention the oldest laws relating to railways

Middleton Railway Act (31 Geo.2, c.xxii, 9 June 1758) the first authorising the building of a railway.

An ACT for Establishing Agreement made between Charles Brandling, Esquire, and other Persons, Proprietors of Lands, for laying down a Waggon-Way in order for the better supplying the Town and Neighbourhood of Leeds in the County of York, with Coals.
This was the first Act of Parliament to authorise the building of a railway. This was a Private Act of Parliament passed by Parliament at the request of private individuals.

The oldest still existing Public Act of Parliament (ie applying to the country generally) still in force relating to Railways is the Railway Regulation Act (3 and 4 Victoria. c. 97 10 August 1840) An ACT for Regulating Railways. Most of this act has been amended or repealed by later acts but clause 16 is still in force with later amendments

For punishment of persons obstructing the officers of any railway company, or trespassing upon any railway.

 

[Bromley boy]

Quite right, although technically the law isn't often updated (which would generally need legislative approval) but rather judges discover what the law has actually always been all along. It's a quaint but constitutionally important legal fiction.

That's an interesting point, although not an uncontroversial one, and in fact underpins a debate which has raged for decades (and also evokes unhappy memories of jurisprudence seminars!).

From memory the theory that judges guided by morality discover the law, while a noted viewpoint advanced by a number of prominent legal philosophers (notably Ronald Dworkin), has been challenged by other writers (Hart) who contend that judges in fact make law through interpretive discretion. Of course this sits uneasily with the principle of separation of powers (essentially requiring the law is made by the legislature and applied by judges).

 

[HSTEd]

There’s a Treason Act 1351 still on the statute books. You’re probably thinking of that.

The Treason Act 1495 is certainly still effective.

One cannot be convicted of treason for serving a de facto monarch against the de jure one.

 

[shredder1]

I think that is apocryphal. I heard a similar one about York and Scotsmen.

Cheers mate, ah well, I can always put the bow on ebay I suppose

 

[krus_aragon]

The oldest still existing Public Act of Parliament (ie applying to the country generally) still in force relating to Railways is the Railway Regulation Act (3 and 4 Victoria. c. 97 10 August 1840) An ACT for Regulating Railways. Most of this act has been amended or repealed by later acts but clause 16 is still in force with later amendments

For punishment of persons obstructing the officers of any railway company, or trespassing upon any railway.

Here's another railway act that's still in force: The Festiniog Railway Act 1832, which originally authorised the railway's construction. It was mostly repealled by the 1869 act, but:

The Act of 1832 (except the provisions thereof set forth in the schedule to this Act) and the Act of 1838 are on the commencement (but subject to the provisions of this Act) by this Act repealed.

Sections 118 and 149 of the 1832 act are excepted, which relate to the compensation of the owners of the Traeth Mawr embankment.

As is well known, the Festiniog Railway was not absorbed by any other railway company, and was not wound up in the 1940s because its acts made no provision for such an event, thus it claims to be the oldest surviving railway company. I'm not aware that any later acts / light railway orders bothered to repeal those last portions of the 1832 act.

 

[Busaholic]

The law of diminishing returns must be up there somewhere, but I'd say the oldest law of all, in any country you care to name, would be Sod's Law.

 

[341o2]

The Highways Act, 1830 which outlaws Pavement cycling is still in effect. Oh! Hang on, its not still in effect obviously, but it still on the statute.

Also the "wanton and furious" riding regarding cycling, during the early 1800's straight from legislation regarding horse drawn vehicles

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Magna Carta, which was widely celebrated in 2015 for its 800th anniversary. Despite a controversial adoption, it seems to be widely accepted that 3 of its 63 clauses from 1215 are still good law. Principally, (and in my own paraphrasing):-
- that citizens can only be fined or imprisoned by a Court constituted of their equals, or by order of the Law; and,
- that justice cannot be bought.
Both of these themes seem to crop up quite regularly in this forum, as matters of principle. In Law, those principles are founded in the Magna Carta.
(Though I must say that I can only recall hearing a clause of the Magna Carta being cited in Court once in my experience - it was during a civil claim for damages against a well known TV personality. It didn't help).

 

[Abpj17]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Magna Carta, which was widely celebrated in 2015 for its 800th anniversary. Despite a controversial adoption, it seems to be widely accepted that 3 of its 63 clauses from 1215 are still good law. Principally, (and in my own paraphrasing):-
- that citizens can only be fined or imprisoned by a Court constituted of their equals, or by order of the Law; and,
- that justice cannot be bought.
Both of these themes seem to crop up quite regularly in this forum, as matters of principle. In Law, those principles are founded in the Magna Carta.
(Though I must say that I can only recall hearing a clause of the Magna Carta being cited in Court once in my experience - it was during a civil claim for damages against a well known TV personality. It didn't help).

While the Magna Carta predates the 1267 act, the MC wasn't given statutory/legislative effect until 1297 - so 30 years afterwards, making the MC not really the oldest law, depending on how you want to define that...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9/contents

 

[Busaholic]

(Though I must say that I can only recall hearing a clause of the Magna Carta being cited in Court once in my experience - it was during a civil claim for damages against a well known TV personality. It didn't help).

One reason for a reluctance amongst lawyers, at least, to start quoting Magna Carta in court may be that a quite famous episode of Hancock's Half Hour TV series in the 1960s (called, iirc, Twelve Angry Men) featured the lad himself, Tony Hancock, declaiming in court 'Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?'. I still hear radio clips of this to this day.