Old TOC Opinions

[tbtc]

The thing I'll say about GNER is that they were trying to be a railway company rather than a TOC, and they were very good at it. They tried their best to improve presentation and show a professional image, as well as providing a very good service and a great increase in frequency

A great increase in frequency?

The London to Leeds service went up from "hourly with a few additional services" to "half hourly, with a few gaps". No big change to the Edinburgh/ Hull/ Inverness/ Glasgow/ Harrogate (etc) services that I can remember

Princess might have worked then, with a core of HSTs operating on the NE-SW route

Good shout. If Virgin had introduced the new timetable first, then worried about new stock later then it'd be a completely different franchise. Instead they tried to everything all at once

Anglia Railways, I've always thought it was unfortunate that GB Railways did not get the chance to run Greater Anglia, but when First took the company over, that stuffed their chances. Anglia did very well, providing something that looked genuinely Inter-City on the Norwich route and doing very well in growing the regional routes. Not bad.

Anglia tried a few new things, it'd have been interesting to see how that would have progressed. Running Norwich - Stratford - Basingstoke and funding Hull Trains were novel ideas. With some TOCs they try fancy ambitious stuff but ignore the "core" operation (I'll name no names). However, Anglia seemed to maintain the "everyday" stuff whilst dreaming big. If First hadn't taken them over, who knows where they'd be now.

 

[Zoe]

The thing I'll say about GNER is that they were trying to be a railway company rather than a TOC, and they were very good at it.

It should be noted that they were one of the few TOCs not owned at least in part by a bus company.

 

[jopsuk]

No- they were owned by a failing shipping company (with interests in running ferries and hotels, as well as publishing and fruit farming).

 

[Old Timer]

Old Timer, I'll see about replying in much more detail later, although I must say I entirely disagree with your comment about not travelling much. Nothing could be further from the truth, I travel all over the country at every opportunity.

You say that, in essence at least, my view of GNER is not worthy of airing. That's the impression I'm getting from your post, which is full of arrogance, sarcasm and attempts at being witty. I've said what I thought of GNER, and although you disagree with me entirely, tough.

Lack of travelling experience, biggest laugh I've had all day

Your comments about GNER seem to be based upon a dislike of the livery and some other as yet undefined issue(s).

I probed your post to point out some inconsistencies. There is no need to respond because you say that these are your reasons. Fair enough.

 

[GingerSte]

I worked on GNER between 2001 and 2003, mainly weekends to fund my way through uni. I freely admit that I have a biased view that is based on the fact that I had many good times there and met a lot of good people.

GNER did focus on the upper end of the market, and were happy to admit it. They were going after business travel, and focussed a lot of their energy on the 20% of passengers with paying 80% of the money. Just a quick look at staff numbers will tell you that: First had one or two CSA's doing at seat, Restaurant had two (chef and CSL as waiter), Standard Plus (which I hated doing) had one CSA (who did S+ and then helped out 1st), and standard was served by a trolley (my favourite job) and the bar.

This focus was from the very top down Chris Garnett was a stickler for the details, and I respected him for it. The first class service we provided was how it should be done everywhere (obviously details can vary). Granted it did mean that ideas for growth were limited, but some ideas like the extra Leeds-London services did bear fruit. You also have to remember that it was a different time to now, and the government/SRA had a tight grip on the railways, and didn't like new ideas. Personally I would have liked to have seen more Hull services, and have seen Lincoln and Sheffield added to the map, but they didn't really fit in with the ethos.

One area where GNER should have done better was the interior cleanliness of its trains, which was contracted out. We tended to clean the first class tables ourselves, but the standard tables/seat backs were left to the cleaners at the termini and depots. I personally found it embarassing at times when customers in standard came up to complain about it. It has to be said this was before the Mallard revamp was started: I left just before this, and have barely travelled on the ECML since (I moved to /birmingham, so opportunities are limited).

(On the livery side I did like the dark blue but hated the orange doors they added later.)

 

[tbtc]

GNER did focus on the upper end of the market, and were happy to admit it. They were going after business travel, and focussed a lot of their energy on the 20% of passengers with paying 80% of the money.

Although GNER were concentrating on the "big spenders" there were fewer and fewer of these over the ten years of GNER as that market moved to air.

There was always *some* air market between London and Edinburgh under BR, but this increased massively at the same time that GNER were running trains concentrating on the business market.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

I too thought GNER were pretty good, especially the First class. FGW are good from a passenger accomodation point on the main lines but the timekeeping - I know it's mostly out of their hands - remains poor. Those of you who didn't experience Connex South-Central missed out on sheer rubbish, little wonder that staff used to alter the trainside branding to Con ex South Central alluding to the former Central division of Southern region. They even managed to upset the first class season ticket holders - of which there are many in Surrey/Sussex - by ordering a fleet of standard class only trains resulting in the present TOC simply applying antimacassars to designated first class areas with the same seating and decor as the standard. Virgin customer service remains excellent, the much maligned Pendolinos are quiet and comfortable. I'm usually impressed with Transpennine too although I haven't used one lately. The TOC that I really like although I don't have much occasion to use them is 2C2.
B.R.? It was like the curate's egg, good in parts. When it was at it's best it was superb, but often it was awful, people forget that.

 

[MCR247]

You mean c2c

 

[northwichcat]

What do people make of Midland Mainline? They weren't the most punctual operator and that worsened when they ran a Manchester-Sheffield-St Pancras service during WCML engineering works. However, a late running direct train service between Manchester and London was better than the replacement coach services and they did offer complimentary hot drinks.

 

[tbtc]

What do people make of Midland Mainline? They weren't the most punctual operator and that worsened when they ran a Manchester-Sheffield-St Pancras service during WCML engineering works. However, a late running direct train service between Manchester and London was better than the replacement coach services and they did offer complimentary hot drinks.

As I've argued in this thread, Midland Mainline were one of the best, and their reputation amongst enthusiasts is nothing like as good as I feel it ought to be.

Project Rio was a drain on the MML, since it deprived Nottingham of half its London services and caused a few headaches around Chesterfield/ Hope Valley. Still, it was necessary for the good of the railways overall, and good to see one TOC helping out like this.

 

[Hydro]

My secondary school was in a large village a few miles from the main catchment towns, which meant the school supplied season tickets and a good four or five hundred would commute via rail each day. When I started, privatisation had just got into full swing, and Connex South Eastern were the operators. We loved Connex. What school kid wouldn't, an operator that got you in on time for the first morning break of the day? Saturday morning school got written off on more than one occasion due to engineering timetables self destructing. The trains were nice though, we never noticed the caked on dirt, the litter or broken seats, we had opening windows to stick our heads out of and slam doors to hold open for late running friends.

I feel sorry for the current pupils though. Punctual trains, information systems to keep you updated, and replacement buses at the drop of a hat.

Apparently business commuters had a slightly different opinion of Connex, but I can't comment on that

 

[313103]

I am quite surprised that Silverlink has been bearly mentioned! As a former employee of said company it would not be right for me to comment on how i felt in the ten years NEG ran it. I would like to hear it from the passenger point of view.

 

[Robinson]

ScotRail had been taken over by First by the time I moved back to the British Isles, so never saw how good they were.
Used Virgin XC very regularly as they used to run Manchester-Glasgow. Some on here will shoot me for this but I thought they were excellent, for the most part. Only slight issue on occasion was their not-quite-top-notch punctuality record. Once TPE took over Manchester-Scotland I always used Northern/TPE Blackpool runs and changed at Preston onto WC.

 

[Drsatan]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned Wessex Trains (owned by National Express), who until 2006 ran trains through my local station.

To increase passenger numbers on the Devon and Cornwall branches, WT altered timetables to reflect passenger demand, and implemented special offers to encourage locals to use them. I remember reading in RAIL ages ago about a rover ticket WT had introduced for the Barnstaple branch which had increased passenger numbers by 30% on that line.

They attempted to reduce overcrowding on Cardiff-Portsmouth trains by running 3-car 158s, but when WT became part of FGW they reverted to 2-car 158s and now they're once again 3 car 158s.

Overcrowding was an issue but it wasn't always WT's fault.

 

[Chris L]

Used the ECML with BR
Last steam trips behind Hyperion and Dwight D Eisenhower
Then the Deltics - they were a treat for the ears - 4000HP please.
Service was always very good
Dining in the down Aberdonian
High Teas on the Yorkshire Pullman
All very good.