Old Street Damaged Tunnel?

[swt_passenger]

That looks like someone has miscalculated there pillings, and gone straight through the tunnel oops.

I wonder what they are telling their insurers? "Hey, we just hit some sort of metal tube..."

 

[jon0844]

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/train...684?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

[westcoaster]

I wonder what they are telling their insurers? "Hey, we just hit some sort of metal tube..."

And here's a copy of my P45.

 

[island]

Network Rail posted their Facebook saying it was a building contractor. "Oops" seems mild.

 

[High Dyke]

BBC News reports it as an office construction site. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21715329

 

[YorkshireBear]

BBC News reports it as an office construction site. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21715329

Now i don't like blame culture but this is a situation where i think suing needs to be done.... Serious serious mistake that could have had far worse consequences.

 

[DarloRich]

It looks like someone forgot to request a buried services report - careless

 

[swj99]

Drills break through into busy London rail tunnel - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21715329

 

[Bald Rick]

Now i don't like blame culture but this is a situation where i think suing needs to be done.... Serious serious mistake that could have had far worse consequences.

RAIB and BTP were called to the building site, so there might well be more than one type of court action to come.

 

[Class377/5]

They look like those auger (spiral) bits used for drilling holes prior to concrete piling, they connect together to extend the length of the auger as the hole gets deeper (or longer depending on direction) - so it's possible that both sections in the foreground came through the same hole.

So very serious as you rightly say, and if the auger sections had remained connected it could have spanned the tunnel and formed a pretty solid obstacle. (So far of course we won't be able to tell if the sections have been separated subsequent to the original incident.)

I wonder if RAIB have had to deal with this sort of thing before, thankfully it doesn't seem to happen regularly...

RAIB and BTP were called to the building site, so there might well be more than one type of court action to come.

It could have been so much worse. We are unlikely to fully know everything for sometime then. But action will be taken.

 

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps it's just a ruse to divert everyone's attention while we stick a 378 in the other tunnel

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps it's just a ruse to divert everyone's attention while we stick a 378 in the other tunnel

Again?

 

[Starmill]

BBC's Tom Edwards has just tweeted a picture of the damage;

https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/310068816870780928/photo/1/large

My God they look ugly in tunnels.

 

[asylumxl]

I wondered where my drill bits got to..

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This reminds me of the accident British Rail had with the London Ring Water Main when they were building the Stewart's Lane flyover.

 

[Nick W]

I tried to locate the potential building site location, but it seems that the railway isn't shown on ordnance survey maps. The HS1 tunnel, other subsurface lines and the Grand Union canal are all shown.

I now wonder if this is related to the incident!

 

[Hyphen]

I tried to locate the potential building site location, but it seems that the railway isn't shown on ordnance survey maps.

The Northern City Line is plotted on OpenStreetMap, although not adequately labelled between Moorgate and Old St.

Going south from Old St you're following the grey-and-white thicker dotted line, not the thinner grey dotted line (this is the Northern Line).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Northern City Line is plotted on OpenStreetMap, although not adequately labelled between Moorgate and Old St.

Going south from Old St you're following the grey-and-white thicker dotted line, not the thinner grey dotted line (this is the Northern Line).

More to the point, would the below-ground services information that should have been in the possession of the site, have showed the tunnel and its position immediately under the building site where such drilling has taken place?

 

[A-driver]

I tried to locate the potential building site location, but it seems that the railway isn't shown on ordnance survey maps. The HS1 tunnel, other subsurface lines and the Grand Union canal are all shown.

I now wonder if this is related to the incident!

If you look at any map the NCL follows the roads above-just follow the main road (can't remember which road but east of the A1) and the road goes from moorgate, old street, pool street, Essex road, highbury.

Many deep level tube lines are built parallel with the roads above.

 

[A-driver]

Just looked at a map-its the A1200 from highbury all the way to old street and then follows the a501 'city road' up to moorgate.

I'm fairly certain it follows the roads above- looking at a map compared to the corners and straights in the tunnel it seems very likely.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

It is a throwback from the days when the underground was built. As deep level tunnelling was a new invention the metro companies weren't allowed to dig the tunnels under buildings in case the tunnelling damaged the buildings. So they had to keep under roads and planned the routes accordingly.

 

[dysonsphere]

It is a throwback from the days when the underground was built. As deep level tunnelling was a new invention the metro companies weren't allowed to dig the tunnels under buildings in case the tunnelling damaged the buildings. So they had to keep under roads and planned the routes accordingly.

It was also an old law involving paying the property owner for running under their property. One of the reasons lines follow the roads was that the local councils didn't charge the underground companys. This is why some lines the tunnels are above each other in places it was to keep within the bounds of the highway above.

 

[daikilo]

More to the point, would the below-ground services information that should have been in the possession of the site, have showed the tunnel and its position immediately under the building site where such drilling has taken place?

Paul,

You mean, would it show a 5 inch water main but not a 25 foot diameter rail tunnel lined with 3 foot thick brick? Pretty useless if it didn't!

My guess is that someone drilled too deep or came accross a water pocket above the tunnel lining. The drill bits are remarkably clean, but why did they detach?

Either way, its not just the trains that will be delayed!

 

[A-driver]

It was also an old law involving paying the property owner for running under their property. One of the reasons lines follow the roads was that the local councils didn't charge the underground companys. This is why some lines the tunnels are above each other in places it was to keep within the bounds of the highway above.

The NCL from moorgate to old street runs directly above the northern line I believe. At highbury I believe the tunnels used to be used by the vic line or vice verse, I know there is a section of tunnel wall patched up with corrugated iron just south of highbury which is the old connection to the current vic line tunnels.

Plus just north of Drayton pat there is an embankment in between the up and down lines which has a door in it which is where the NCL lines originally dived back underground toward Finsbury park (I believe they used the current vic line tunnels. The then ran through crouch hill towards higate and finchley before running into edgware via mill hill east.

I have been in the old tunnel under the embankment between Drayton park and Finsbury park when doing one of the annual fire courses on the NCL. I find all that kind of thing fascinating. I am trying to get a trip into York road tunnel by kings x at present.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

This may have been said earlier - but around 1992 a Central line train hit a drill section on the M11 extension on or around Leyton , causing much damage to the 62TS , - but no injury to the driver or passengers ...almost a repeat performance around New Street when the new Bullring builders "found" a 170 underneath.

 

[tsr]

This may have been said earlier - but around 1992 a Central line train hit a drill section on the M11 extension on or around Leyton , causing much damage to the 62TS , - but no injury to the driver or passengers ...almost a repeat performance around New Street when the new Bullring builders "found" a 170 underneath.

It would probably be potentially much more serious if a drill struck a train's passenger areas or cabs and subsequently managed to penetrate. I'm assuming that didn't happen in either of the cases you mention?

 

[Electrostar]

ITV News London's website reported the incident as happening on THE Underground rather than underground. It's been a while since LU ran the Northern City line.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It would probably be potentially much more serious if a drill struck a train's passenger areas or cabs and subsequently managed to penetrate. I'm assuming that didn't happen in either of the cases you mention?

Just checked it out - it was 1986 - the drill bits on the Central line incident went through the cab roof , the driver saw it and threw himself onto the cab floor (thus dropping the dead mans handle in the process) - and the incursion went right back to the cab bulkhead. A very nasty close call. The cars in question were written off.

I have seen ice build up in tunnels ripping open a Mk3 carriage roof - so a solid drill bit can do more damage.

 

[tsr]

Just checked it out - it was 1986 - the drill bits on the Central line incident went through the cab roof , the driver saw it and threw himself onto the cab floor (thus dropping the dead mans handle in the process) - and the incursion went right back to the cab bulkhead. A very nasty close call. The cars in question were written off.

Ouch! In that case, that can probably be used as a practical example to show that the choice of depth and timing by the building contractor on Friday was potentially very, very lucky indeed. I honestly wouldn't expect any train to withstand sudden heavy-duty drilling.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My guess is that someone drilled too deep or came accross a water pocket above the tunnel lining. The drill bits are remarkably clean, but why did they detach?

The drill bits in the pictures do indeed look very clean as you say. Can I return to my point about the documentation that should have been on the site which would have detailed the tunnel as well as all other below-ground services. If it is found that this documentation was not on the site, which body would take action against the building contractors in an incident such as has occurred ?