Old fashioned personal discretion…

[Haywain]

One would hope that machines would flag a ticket as requiring further checking rather than point blank stating it is invalid, but that seems not to be the way 'the railway' implements things.

My understanding is that while they flag a ticket as invalid, it is then for the ticket checker to decide what action, if any, to take next with accepting the ticket being an option.

 

[Bluejays]

If you just want to travel early on your advance ticket for no good reason and I let you - that's not discretion, that's me being lazy and avoiding potential conflict.

Get on my train and start telling me I have discretion and I ought to use it? You will get treated absolutely in accordance with the contract you have made with the railway, with everything good, and bad, that might entail.

Totally agree with the second point . If someone starts demanding discretion or throwing the jobsworth term around, then they're likely to lose any discretion I would have been considering.


But have to disagree with the point about advances. I had a group of 4 people on my train yesterday, they'd paid £115 each for first class advances and they were travelling 2 hours earlier than the ticket said. Now to buy first class tickets onboard (super off peak with upgrade) would have cost them about £80. I don't think it's laziness that made me not charge them again, it's the fact I wouldn't have been able to sleep that night if I had done so. I accepted their tickets and I also let them.know about the advance rules for next time. Following the rules in that instance would have been grossly unfair. Same goes with advances that cost a pound or 2 less than the walk up, accept and educate seems the right way to me.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I was grateful for the discretion shown when I fell a sleep on train and woke up as we were pulling out of the station I was supposed to change at. I found the guard, explain and asked if I could buy a return from last station to next. We said don't worry just get next train back. I'd prefered to buy a ticket, since I was worried for ticket check on journey back, but there wasn't one.

However in this OP case I would have been grateful for the "discretion" shown.

 

[methecooldude]

My understanding is that while they flag a ticket as invalid, it is then for the ticket checker to decide what action, if any, to take next with accepting the ticket being an option.

That is exactly what happens... although annoyingly, if one does not select an option, the default position is, if the scanner thinks its invalid is to 'Reject'... which is quite annoying if I've chosen to accept the ticket but its timed out, could I scan the ticket again sure... do I in practice, no, 'cause I totally forget its done it

 

[LowLevel]

Discretion went when electronic tickets became a thing.

With paper, no one knows if I've seen that ticket and, with just a cursory look, any ticket, depending on my mood, is valid for travel.

With electronic tickets, it's immediately flagged that the ticket is incorrect, and the machine is now prompting me for a response. This response is recorded and audited and, if it's not the correct response, I find a shiny 'Please explain...' note in my pigeon hole two or three days later.

So I have to write a report and file that, then await any further outcomes of that.....
So, with an electronic ticket, the easiest thing now for me to do is exactly what I'm trained to, regardless if it's a genuine mistake, you're a fare dodger or anything else. You all get treated the same because, if I don't, then I could end up losing my job.

My training from day 1 has always been that discretion is mine and the TOC expect me to use it - true to their world I've never once been asked to explain a ticketing decision, scanned or otherwise.

 

[Cuthbert]

I use discretion on certain routes as Revenue. My company won't sack me for that as it's discretion.

Certain lines of routes have our ToC and another. One is 10p cheaper than ours and it's ToC only permitted. I should PF them as we put out announcements explaining they cannot travel on our services with these tickets.

My gripe is the starting location station staff tell them to get on our train, the restrictions are small printed on the ticket either paper or e-ticket and the TVM will have this ticket at the top when you put the destination in so ofc you will buy it.

Some of our main stations will sell the station owners tickets first.

And as far as I can tell the TVM won't have alarm bells telling the passengers of the restrictions they have to click multiple options. Correct me if I am wrong I will check tomorrow at my home station.

 

[RPI]

My training from day 1 has always been that discretion is mine and the TOC expect me to use it - true to their world I've never once been asked to explain a ticketing decision, scanned or otherwise.

Likewise, even as an RPI I've never been asked to justify any course of discretionary action that I've taken. If I scan a ticket and allow them to travel, using discretion, I just select "accept with warning" and make a note of the circumstances.

 

[Cuthbert]

Ah, the perceived infallibility of technology. Frequent readers will have seen many reports of station barriers rejecting tickets as invalid (incorrect), when said tickets are actually completely valid, and the 'technology is never wrong' responses from some staff. I am unconvinced that mobile ticket checkers will never wrongly flag tickets.

Of course in many cases even using a simple Advance ticket on a different train to which it was booked can be perfectly valid. One would hope that machines would flag a ticket as requiring further checking rather than point blank stating it is invalid, but that seems not to be the way 'the railway' implements things.

For the avoidance of doubt, I agree with most posters that the OP (who I note has not responded further) was offered discrection and should be grateful it was.

If you travel from Stratford-upon-Avon to Lichfield City you have to exit either Birmingham Snow Hill or Moor Street walk over to New Street to carry on with your journey. The gates will not accept it and our TKK app which we check digital tickets will say "Invalid Route" but we ignore it as the app cannot cope for some reason.

 

[skyhigh]

I accepted their tickets and I also let them.know about the advance rules for next time.

Which assumes that they didn't already know and weren't just trying it on with a cheaper Advance on a more expensive train.

Generally in my experience most people were fully aware, and if guard A let it slide as you did with passengers 1 and 2, they would often try it again with guard B and complain "well guard A didn't have a problem and never told me that". Meanwhile passengers 3 and 4 sitting nearby overhear the first conversation and decide there's no point booking the train they actually want to travel on as nobody would actually do anything about it.

I'm all for using discretion as appropriate, but personally I don't think I would have done for cases such as the OP's and travelling hours early on an Advance without a good reason.

 

[methecooldude]

If you travel from Stratford-upon-Avon to Lichfield City you have to exit either Birmingham Snow Hill or Moor Street walk over to New Street to carry on with your journey. The gates will not accept it and our TKK app which we check digital tickets will say "Invalid Route" but we ignore it as the app cannot cope for some reason.

Yea, I can see why TTK has a go at that one... ours has an issue with &connections tickets, doesn't quite understand it

 

[Cuthbert]

Yea, I can see why TTK has a go at that one... ours has an issue with &connections tickets, doesn't quite understand it

Someone clued up in my company told me a few years ago the reason but I cannot remember and he has moved over to a new ToC.

 

[Bluejays]

Which assumes that they didn't already know and weren't just trying it on with a cheaper Advance on a more expensive train.

Generally in my experience most people were fully aware, and if guard A let it slide as you did with passengers 1 and 2, they would often try it again with guard B and complain "well guard A didn't have a problem and never told me that". Meanwhile passengers 3 and 4 sitting nearby overhear the first conversation and decide there's no point booking the train they actually want to travel on as nobody would actually do anything about it.

I'm all for using discretion as appropriate, but personally I don't think I would have done for cases such as the OP's and travelling hours early on an Advance without a good reason.

I can see where you're coming from, but the price of the tickets bought is something I take into consideration aswell. When they've paid £115 for tickets that could have been at £80 walk-up , I'm not going to hit them for another £80 on top, seems very excessive. Same as when somebody's paid £84 for an advance where the open ticket was £85. If they keep trying it on in those circumstances they'll end up paying eventually.

But in these cases where they've only saved a pound or 2 on a big fare by booking an advance, the likelihood probably is that they'll just pay the extra pound and get an open fare next time