Old, Dirty & Late - Network SouthEast

[millemille]

Well speak to the many southeastern drivers who worked them at the time and the fitters who were maintaining them. They all speak if these problems.

I speak to Southeastern drivers and fitters on a daily basis - given as I'm one of the people who writes operational and maintenance instructions for Southeastern - and it's still rubbish.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, the Networkers were quite groundbreaking at the time. It's not surprising that they should have shown up a few teething troubles.

 

[Electrostar]

I remember Networkers being pulled out of service in the mid-90s, some fair time after their introduction. I think there were issues with the corridor connections. The corridor connection was certainly an improvement over the EPBs. I travel on them daily. However Southeastern cancels and short-forms a lot of services due to train failures, I'd like to know the biggest issues affecting them. The other issue for me is Southeastern's lacklustre refresh of the interiors. They're dirty, seats are often missing and the heating fails regularly. I can't blame the Networkers for the first two, that's down to the worst operator in the land!

I often wonder if they should have been built with cab-end corridor connections. It seems such as waste of space to have three toilets on a 10-car metro service.

Oh the toilets. Another stinking problem that has never quite been solved.

 

[Blindtraveler]

only networker bog iv ever used was amazing, as far as these things go. The consept to me is a great one and I will be sad in another 20 or so years when some gastly diziro replaces them!

 

[ryan125hst]

I often wonder if they should have been built with cab-end corridor connections. It seems such as waste of space to have three toilets on a 10-car metro service.

Do you think? I've often heard about toilets being out of use on trains, and as the Networkers only have one per four car unit, instead of the usual two on most four car EMU's, I would have thought that they are all needed.

Are they out of use often on Networkers, or are they generally reliable?

 

[yorksrob]

Also, the networkers get as far out as Ashford and Gillingham so the toilets are a necessity.

 

[tsr]

Utter fantasy.....

I've spent 22 years building, commissioning, maintaining and modifying Networkers from shop floor to fleet engineering level and have never heard such cobblers.

With regards to Networkers - quite. I haven't heard anything like that either from any enthusiast or industry sources.

However, I would say that the description sounds eerily reminiscent of my personal (unhappy) experiences of 442s, which is truly bizarre, because I don't know how you could possibly confuse one of those with an NSE/SET Networker.

 

[Galvanize]

Some familiar faces in that, including John Arthur who is more or less doing the same job today - and he's not changed a bit!

One of the MOMs who appears in the Petts Wood fatality scene retired around about 2000 and now volunteers at the Spa Valley Railway! Sadly the Scottish MOM who was seen with John Arthur is no longer with us, he passed away shortly after he retired!

 

[Electrostar]

My point is that a 10-car service is formed of two four-carriage and one two-carriage Networkers. If you need the loo and a toilet is out of order you have to get off the train and walk to the next unit. The likelihood of two loos being out of order is slim. If the Networkers had inter-unit corridor connections you wouldn't have needed the toilet in the 2-car unit thus gaining valuable space. Imagine if they were built now, the toilets would be far bigger. Would it not be better to contain toilets in 4-carriage units and leave the 2-carriage units as seating/standing only?

I understand Networkers travel to Ashford but I thought this was only since the 465/9 conversion. Even here a standard 466 is coupled to the front or rear and isolated from the rest of the train. Corridor connections would immediately remove that isolation.

 

[oversteer]

I quite enjoyed that. Are there any other similar documentaries about?

It didn't really paint BR in a good light but then I suppose not many things ever did.

 

[ainsworth74]

I quite enjoyed that. Are there any other similar documentaries about?

There's a few floating around on YouTube.

Inside Story Leeds - London:

[youtube]cyyYeIuaNik[/youtube]

Trouble on the line:

Part 1
[youtube]oqKSH6oHVws[/youtube]

Part 2
[youtube]zXSDNRPpUnw[/youtube]

Part 3
[youtube]ZjFJmb8Xvu8[/youtube]

Part 4
[youtube]4dcOvZ_rSlI[/youtube]

First sight:

Part 1
[youtube]7CCCKoo42pM[/youtube]

Part 2
[youtube]WYZ4o-JVqmI[/youtube]

Part 3
[youtube]tEWuapbJDrc[/youtube]

Running to time:

Part 1
[youtube]GCrV9GQA74A[/youtube]

Part 2
[youtube]uwm4P-wKqgQ[/youtube]

Part 3
[youtube]YZHF879SMmc[/youtube]

Part 4
[youtube]PVjc0NtBg8M[/youtube]

The last one is more focused on the development and introduction of the IC225 but still includes some general stuff as well. Those are the documentaries that I can remember off the top of my head, there may be others around.

 

[Firestarter]

Unfortunately part 3 appears to be missing

.

Wheres part 3?

 

[Galvanize]

I understand Networkers travel to Ashford but I thought this was only since the 465/9 conversion. Even here a standard 466 is coupled to the front or rear and isolated from the rest of the train. Corridor connections would immediately remove that isolation.

465 networkers used to occasionally venture to Tunbridge Wells and Ashford in the Connex days, before the 465/9 conversion took place.

 

[Geezertronic]

Wheres part 3?

The description on the Youtube Part 4 says that it is missing, I guess the poster didn't have it?

 

[Galvanize]

Those are the documentaries that I can remember off the top of my head, there may be others around.

I've got loads of old railway documentaries recorded off the TV back in the late 1990s or early noughties, their all on VHS tapes, but if/when I get them transferred, I could share some of them with people!

Programs such as:
*Dispatches "Second Class Return" An investigation into rail privatisation (1996)
*Panorama "Down the tube" Investigation into the poor condition of the Underground, with impending talks on PPP, also shows the 1995 stock under test in Golders Green depot, and the JLE under construction at Canary Wharf. (1997)
*World in Action "The Tracks of my tears" -Andrew Jennings spends a month travelling with Great Western Trains (1997 or 98 I think), plenty of HSTs in the old Merlin livery.
*Back to the Floor "On the Rails" MD of Prism Rail spends a week at Cambridge Railway Station. (1999)

To name but a few.

 

[class303]

I've got loads of old railway documentaries recorded off the TV back in the late 1990s or early noughties, their all on VHS tapes, but if/when I get them transferred, I could share some of them with people!

Programs such as:
*Dispatches "Second Class Return" An investigation into rail privatisation (1996)
*Panorama "Down the tube" Investigation into the poor condition of the Underground, with impending talks on PPP, also shows the 1995 stock under test in Golders Green depot, and the JLE under construction at Canary Wharf. (1997)
*World in Action "The Tracks of my tears" -Andrew Jennings spends a month travelling with Great Western Trains (1997 or 98 I think), plenty of HSTs in the old Merlin livery.
*Back to the Floor "On the Rails" MD of Prism Rail spends a week at Cambridge Railway Station. (1999)

To name but a few.

i'd love to see you upload those Galvanise. remember having watched most of them back in the day

 

[Muzer]

I've got loads of old railway documentaries recorded off the TV back in the late 1990s or early noughties, their all on VHS tapes, but if/when I get them transferred, I could share some of them with people!

Programs such as:
*Dispatches "Second Class Return" An investigation into rail privatisation (1996)
*Panorama "Down the tube" Investigation into the poor condition of the Underground, with impending talks on PPP, also shows the 1995 stock under test in Golders Green depot, and the JLE under construction at Canary Wharf. (1997)
*World in Action "The Tracks of my tears" -Andrew Jennings spends a month travelling with Great Western Trains (1997 or 98 I think), plenty of HSTs in the old Merlin livery.
*Back to the Floor "On the Rails" MD of Prism Rail spends a week at Cambridge Railway Station. (1999)

To name but a few.

Please do. I'd love to see what the railway was like at that time - I'm too young to remember it myself. (Though with everything, you must take it with a pinch of salt due to the possible biases of the people who made it )

 

[Galvanize]

Not sure when I can get it done, but I will try and get it done soon!

 

[MK Tom]

Sorry, but watching that video it introduces Orpington as being in Kent. Was it at that time?

 

[jopsuk]

Sorry, but watching that video it introduces Orpington as being in Kent. Was it at that time?

As far as I can work out, officially, no- but though it is in a London Borough, it doesn't have London phone or post codes. Even Bromley proper doesn't. Bromley "feels" like it is in Kent, not London, I'm guessing Orpington does too.

 

[wimbledonpete]

Sorry, but watching that video it introduces Orpington as being in Kent. Was it at that time?

Its postal address is Kent, a bit like Croydon or Kingston being Surrey or Brentford Middlesex - all within London Boroughs but outside the London postal areas. Go further back and Greenwich was in Kent but that's a whole different thing!

 

[CNash]

I live in Welling, which has a Kent postal address and DA (Dartford) postcode, and as such I don't really consider myself to be living "in London" - but then I tend not to say I'm "from Kent" as that makes people think I live further out than I actually do! It's a kind of no-man's-land created by the expanding Greater London area and its overlap with county boundaries.

 

[Electrostar]

An interesting piece on London's postcode by Diamond Geezer

http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/londons-postcodes.html

Back to the thread and I remember the BBC's Railwatch in the 80s, a week of live broadcasts from the BR network. I'm sure they lined up logos in Intercity swallow, mainline (unbranded IC), railfreight general, parcels and departmental grey but the memory might be playing tricks!

 

[Tom C]

What's wrong with the Networkers

Overly complicated rubbish. Thankfully, they are the newest trains we have but they are still a minefield for a controller.

Start with the yearly compressor failures causing units to go around in pairs on one compressor, the stupid plug doors which constantly go wrong, the peak lopping from the traction motors, the fact that drivers cannot look back on them so they are nowhere near as versatile as a 317........could go on for a while but I think you get the point.

Luckily we have 317's which can be fixed with a man with a large hammer and most noticeable failure that I can recall is a door failure (which is the achilies heel of the 317 sadly).

 

[Statto]

Back to the thread and I remember the BBC's Railwatch in the 80s, a week of live broadcasts from the BR network. I'm sure they lined up logos in Intercity swallow, mainline (unbranded IC), railfreight general, parcels and departmental grey but the memory might be playing tricks!

Remember that myself, think the show was based at Leeds Station, remember the unavailing of the 225 even though some were already in service.

 

[millemille]

Overly complicated rubbish. Thankfully, they are the newest trains we have but they are still a minefield for a controller.

Start with the yearly compressor failures causing units to go around in pairs on one compressor, the stupid plug doors which constantly go wrong, the peak lopping from the traction motors, the fact that drivers cannot look back on them so they are nowhere near as versatile as a 317........could go on for a while but I think you get the point.

Are you talking cl365 or 465?

 

[A-driver]

Are you talking cl365 or 465?

Considering it states they also run 317s and he works for FCC it will be 365s.

 

[Silv1983]

Sorry, but watching that video it introduces Orpington as being in Kent. Was it at that time?

It was until 1965 when Greater London was created. As Royal Mail had built its postal code system and infrastructure long before this year - the feeling and/or belief that towns in Bromley borough were still kent lives on. Most people would (ignorantly) believe its still Kent - but thats because its what they read every day on their post.

 

[Tom C]

Considering it states they also run 317s and he works for FCC it will be 365s.

Handy Hints!

We also run 321's but they have not covered themselves in glory lately.........

Concidering the supurb service they gave Silverlink and how Hornsey take such good care of the other old battleaxes, its baffling to work out why they have been so poor for FCC. Only one out of the 10 carriage workings work all day (the only one to visit Cambridge incidentially), they only come out at weekends for football extras yet they seem to have constant problems and from what I gather there is a lack of spares for them not just at FCC but at Anglia and London Midland!. I would be very tempted to offer the 321's to Anglia in exchange for 317's as it would certainly make life easier (well for me anyway )

On another note, I always thought that 313's were very unreliable old things but to be fair to them, they are actually more reliable in real terms than the longer distance machines and they take a worse pounding every weekday morning.

 

[jon0844]

313s will last forever. If we ever get to travel and settle on other planets, they'll be taken along...

Shame about the 321s as on the GN route they have the best first class accommodation, which I enjoy on the many declassified services!