Offered Possible Invalid Ticket for Itinerary

[Admiral]

Hello!


I’ve been looking at return tickets from Basingstoke to London Paddington for the morning of Tuesday 26 August. Every ticketing app I’ve tried suggests I can buy an Off-Peak Return (restriction code C7) even for journeys departing as early as 05:49.

However, when I read through the actual C7 restrictions, it looks pretty clear that the ticket isn’t valid on services arriving into London Paddington before 09:57, which would rule out those early morning trains.

Am I misunderstanding the restriction, or is this just a quirk of the journey planners? My only theory is that it might be related to the day being immediately after the bank holiday.

Would appreciate any insight into whether this ticket would really be valid at that time.

Thanks!

 

[alistairlees]

Hello!


I’ve been looking at return tickets from Basingstoke to London Paddington for the morning of Tuesday 26 August. Every ticketing app I’ve tried suggests I can buy an Off-Peak Return (restriction code C7) even for journeys departing as early as 05:49.

However, when I read through the actual C7 restrictions, it looks pretty clear that the ticket isn’t valid on services arriving into London Paddington before 09:57, which would rule out those early morning trains.

Am I misunderstanding the restriction, or is this just a quirk of the journey planners? My only theory is that it might be related to the day being immediately after the bank holiday.

Would appreciate any insight into whether this ticket would really be valid at that time.

Thanks!

The data has no restrictions for Tuesday 26th August regarding morning arrivals. The morning restrictions only restart on Wednesday 27th August. I expect that this is a TOC error. You could buy the ticket, but expect to be challenged / fined / face a struggle to prove that you are correct.

 

[yorkie]

Looking at the data, it is clear that the electronic restrictions are eased on that day. Whether that is intentional or not, I do not know, but booking sites go by what the data says.

If you book a ticket with our ticketing site, and stick to the itinerary you are given, and are charged an excess fare, we would support you in any complaint you submit with GWR.

If challenged, I would simply say I am following an itinerary. I wouldn't say anything about data or knowing anything about restrictions.

 

[MrJeeves]

Presumably they meant to ease them for the Monday Bank Holiday, and accidentally pushed that to cover the Tuesday as well/instead.

 

[plugwash]

Am I misunderstanding the restriction, or is this just a quirk of the journey planners? My only theory is that it might be related to the day being immediately after the bank holiday.

There are two sets of restrictions, the human-readable ones shown on the national rail website, and the machine readable ones used by journey planners. They don't always entirely agree with each other.

Peak restrictions were/are normally not applied on bank holidays.

Afaict the Data format understands days of week and start and end dates but it doesn't understand bank holidays and so they have to be accomodated by ending and re-starting the restrictions. Bank holiday dates also change from year to year since there are not a round number of weeks in a year.

So I would think the most likely explanation is that someone made an error when setting up a bank holiday and left an extra day unrestricted.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does the query raised by @Admiral just relate to Off Peak Returns from Basingstoke to/from London for journeys on Tuesday week, or is it perhaps more widespread an issue?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Presumably they meant to ease them for the Monday Bank Holiday, and accidentally pushed that to cover the Tuesday as well/instead.

In which case now it's been flagged up on here, expect it to be corrected by noon on Monday... It's probably worth printing off anything that shows it unrestricted on that date and carrying it alongside the ticket.

 

[plugwash]

Does the query raised by @Admiral just relate to Off Peak Returns from Basingstoke to/from London for journeys on Tuesday week, or is it perhaps more widespread an issue?

I would expect it to apply to at least all tickets using the same restriction code.

 

[talldave]

There are two sets of restrictions, the human-readable ones shown on the national rail website, and the machine readable ones used by journey planners. They don't always entirely agree with each other.

Peak restrictions were/are normally not applied on bank holidays.

Afaict the Data format understands days of week and start and end dates but it doesn't understand bank holidays and so they have to be accomodated by ending and re-starting the restrictions. Bank holiday dates also change from year to year since there are not a round number of weeks in a year.

So I would think the most likely explanation is that someone made an error when setting up a bank holiday and left an extra day unrestricted.

It's so frustrating that in 2025, it's not possible to write some computer software that takes one set of data (this year's Bank Holidays) and uses it to modify another set of data (this year's restriction code dates).

Thankfully we've got Bob in planning who's found out how to manually hack the data using the list of Bank Holidays in his mum's Letts diary from last year.

 

[kieron]

The restriction code has a perfectly good list of dates in 2025 which are not weekends or bank holidays in England. The problem with C7 is that every individual restriction for the code overrides these dates with its own list.

Some restrictions need to override the dates for some of the restrictions (e.g. VK needs it for the "doesn't apply on Fridays" rule). C7 is the same on every weekday, and doesn't say to use another restriction code under any circumstances, so I wouldn't have expected the dates to be overridden at all.

The restriction code does need some regular maintenance, however, to ensure that the times make sense with the timetable. Perhaps someone doing this just pressed the wrong button.

 

[Admiral]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Do you think I would have any issue at the ticket barriers with either paper or e-ticket?

 

[yorkie]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Do you think I would have any issue at the ticket barriers with either paper or e-ticket?

If it was me, I'd get an e-ticket, because the itinerary will be stated on the ticket.

You may have issues at gatelines with tickets that are issued on the basis of erroneous data; I've been told a perfectly valid non-loophole ticket is invalid at Paddington; it's to be expected of them, given the lack of knowledge, training and safeguards in place.

If you are forced to pay an excess fare, this would be evidence of a contractual breach, which would be compensable.

 

[MrJeeves]

Noone fixed this before today, and it is now causing problems for passengers as we all expected.

 

[yorkie]

Noone fixed this before today, and it is now causing problems for passengers as we all expected.

As in barrier staff at Paddington are incorrectly denying passengers access to it from trains stated on their itineraries?

If so, this absolutely does not surprise me and is consistent with the appalling behaviour of several members of GWR staff at this location.

Do you know if GWR charged anyone, or just gave them a hard time?

I've encountered one of these individuals who tried to insist I was wrong about a ticket; he eventually relented but not everyone is as assertive/confident as I am.

As for the data issue, I believe GWR lack knowledge in this area. There may be only one person who really understands how the data works (if they are still there)?

 

[Adam Williams]

Do you know if GWR charged anyone, or just gave them a hard time?

They are being made to buy new tickets.

Raileasy will, once again, be liaising with GWR directly to secure compensation for affected customers, but it's a colossal waste of the customer support team's time. Completely ridiculous how it's always the same TOC and always the same gateline that causes a grossly disproportionate amount of problems, and the clueless frontline staff are not blameless either - they are actively misrepresenting the problem and blaming retailers for their own employer's continued incompetence, causing reputational damage.

Where can the invoice be sent for retailer costs?

 

[ainsworth74]

Where can the invoice be sent for retailer costs?

I believe the contact address for such things is:

The Shredder
Great Minster House
33 Horseferry Road
London
SW1P 4DR

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone here have a direct contact for Mark Hopwood? Given the industry links we have, there must be someone....

 

[talldave]

Does anyone here have a direct contact for Mark Hopwood? Given the industry links we have, there must be someone....

Message him on LinkedIn?

 

[Adam Williams]

Hopwood was already contacted over two years ago for exactly the same reasons (passengers being incorrectly prevented from travel, and given misleading information about ticket restrictions).

It is a systemic problem at GWR (particularly Paddington), and I do not think it is likely to ever change.