Offered a route that doesn't exist?

[EM2]

Last Saturday, I went from Wanstead Park to Pitsea. The ticket machine offered me either 'Any Permitted' or 'via Hackney Wick'. For the life of me, I cannot work out how I'm supposed to do that journey via Hackney Wick.
Can anyone illuminate me?

 

[glynn80]

Last Saturday, I went from Wanstead Park to Pitsea. The ticket machine offered me either 'Any Permitted' or 'via Hackney Wick'. For the life of me, I cannot work out how I'm supposed to do that journey via Hackney Wick.
Can anyone illuminate me?

I can only assume that this is going taking the GOBLIN to Gospel Oak and then the North London Line to West Ham to join C2C there. This may be a faster journey for stations up the line if you were to just miss a service via Barking. On further investigation however I cannot find the fares you mention and the only one listed in the fares manual is the Any Permitted.

SDS 8.10
SDR 10.10
CDR 9.50

 

[Jordy]

Avantix does bring up a route Hackney Wick ticket priced at

SDS 7.20
SDR 12.30
CDR 7.20

 

[glynn80]

Avantix does bring up a route Hackney Wick ticket priced at

SDS 7.20
SDR 12.30
CDR 7.20

Hmm must have been another one the data entry personnel missed out of the FRPP.

This does however pose an interesting issue as the only Permitted Route for this journey is one via the Shortest Route as they have both have Barking as a Common Routeing Point.

The shortest route is:
From Wanstead Park to Woodgrange Park, to Barking, to Upminster, to Pitsea via Laindon

According to CORE you are permitted take a direct train to the Common Routeing Point (Barking) and then another direct train to the destination (Pitsea) although I cannot find any mention of this anymore in the Routeing Guide and thus this seems to bar travel on direct services between Barking and Pitsea via Grays as well.

The Hackney Wick ticket is in this case cheaper if you use the Anytime Day Single or Off Peak Day Return fares but not if you use the Anytime Day Return which leaves the situation of whether the Any Permitted fare is valid via the routes that the Hackney Wick tickets permit ambiguous.

 

[EM2]

I can only assume that this is going taking the GOBLIN to Gospel Oak and then the North London Line to West Ham to join C2C there. This may be a faster journey for stations up the line if you were to just miss a service via Barking.

But the NLL terminates at Stratford?
So it'd be:
Wanstead Park - Gospel Oak (GOBLin)
Gospel Oak - Stratfrod (via Hackney Wick) (NLL)
Stratford - West Ham - (Jubilee)
West Ham - Pitsea (c2c)

Surely not?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The shortest route is:
From Wanstead Park to Woodgrange Park, to Barking, to Upminster, to Pitsea via Laindon

According to CORE you are permitted take a direct train to the Common Routeing Point (Barking) and then another direct train to the destination (Pitsea) although I cannot find any mention of this anymore in the Routeing Guide and thus this seems to bar travel on direct services between Barking and Pitsea via Grays as well.

That's interesting, as the train I caught was routed via Ockendon and Grays. At Barking, the PA and CIS said it terminated at Stanford-Le-Hope, but it did continue on to Southend (via Pitsea), as it said on NRE and the on-board CIS.

 

[glynn80]

But the NLL terminates at Stratford?
So it'd be:
Wanstead Park - Gospel Oak (GOBLin)
Gospel Oak - Stratfrod (via Hackney Wick) (NLL)
Stratford - West Ham - (Jubilee)
West Ham - Pitsea (c2c)

Sorry yes the NLL does terminate at Stratford, having checked the shortest route from Gospel Oak to Pitsea is via Hackney Wick to Stratford thence to Forest Gate, Woodgrange Park, Barking and Upminster. The direct route from Stratford to Barking is however pretty infrequent so it still beggars the question why the need for the Hackney Wick route fare.

 

[dan_atki]

But the NLL terminates at Stratford?
So it'd be:
Wanstead Park - Gospel Oak (GOBLin)
Gospel Oak - Stratfrod (via Hackney Wick) (NLL)
Stratford - West Ham - (Jubilee)
West Ham - Pitsea (c2c)

Surely not?

To be fair that isn't as barmy as what NXEC throws up for Wanstead Park - Hackney Wick - Pitsea:

- Walk from Wanstead Park to Forest Gate
- Forest Gate - Stratford
- Stratford - Hackney Wick
- Hackney Wick - Stratford
- Stratford - Romford
- Romford - Upminster
- Upminster - Pitsea

They get worse too:

- Walk from Wanstead Park to Forest Gate
- Forest Gate - Stratford
- Stratford - Hackney Central
- Walk from Hackney Central to Hackney Downs
- Hackney Downs - Liverpool Street
- Walk from Liverpool Street to Fenchurch Street
- Fenchurch Street - Pitsea

- Walk from Wanstead Park to Forest Gate
- Forest Gate - Stratford
- Stratford - Hackney Wick
- Hackney Wick - Stratford
- Stratford - Southend Victoria (!)
- Walk from Southend Victoria to Southend Central
- Southend Central - Pitsea

The last one would be interesting to see the look on the member of staff's face when trying to leave at Southend Victoria...

That's interesting, as the train I caught was routed via Ockendon and Grays. At Barking, the PA and CIS said it terminated at Stanford-Le-Hope, but it did continue on to Southend (via Pitsea), as it said on NRE and the on-board CIS.

It is very common for station systems to say a train is terminating at a station before it actually is. It's done like this where there is not the facility to show calling patterns for subsequent trains so that passengers are made aware that a subsequent service will arrive at some stations further along the route earlier. E.G. at Reading, stoppers to Paddington are shown and announced as terminating at Ealing Broadway as there are faster services to Paddington.

 

[John @ home]

According to CORE you are permitted take a direct train to the Common Routeing Point (Barking) and then another direct train to the destination (Pitsea) although I cannot find any mention of this anymore in the Routeing Guide

This appears to be only in the Examples section of the National Routeing Guide, which is not exactly where one would expect to look for definitive information:

Finding a permitted route when the origin and destination stations have a routeing point in common.
If there is a common routeing point, the permitted route is the shortest route or a route which is longer by no more than 3 miles. Also permitted is the route followed by direct trains to and from the common routeing point if the journey is made on those trains.
(from http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/pdf_docs/sectionf.pdf Page F7)

John

 

[glynn80]

This appears to be only in the Examples section of the National Routeing Guide, which is not exactly where one would expect to look for definitive information:

Finding a permitted route when the origin and destination stations have a routeing point in common.
If there is a common routeing point, the permitted route is the shortest route or a route which is longer by no more than 3 miles. Also permitted is the route followed by direct trains to and from the common routeing point if the journey is made on those trains.
(from http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/pdf_docs/sectionf.pdf Page F7)

John

Ah cheers for that John,

I had also wondered where exactly I had read the shortest route or that no longer than 3 miles as well, which is also in the examples section.

 

[EM2]

This gets weirder...
Thinking of going to Lakeside tomorrow, so looking at going from Wanstead Park to Chafford Hundred. NRE says return fare is £6.40.
My wife has a Freedom Pass so she can use that to Barking. I looked up the fare from Barking to Chafford Hundred and it's £8 return!
How does that work?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

£8-00 fare looks to have been calculated as a £4-00 anytime single there and then another £4-00 anytime single back.

There's an off-peak day return fare available between Barking and Chafford Hundred at £5-80, I believe, or £5-90 for an anytime day return.

 

[John @ home]

£8-00 fare looks to have been calculated as a £4-00 anytime single there and then another £4-00 anytime single back.

There's an off-peak day return fare available between Barking and Chafford Hundred at £5-80, I believe, or £5-90 for an anytime day return.

The NFM 02 CD shows these fares:
Origin: BOUNDARY ZONE 6 (0072)
Destination: CHAFFORD HUNDRED (7447) CFH
Route: ANY PERMITTED
SDR 4.40
CDR 4.20 B1 (M-F: not before 0930)
SDS 3.00

John

 

[Mojo]

As John says, the best ticket to buy is a BZ6 to CFH ticket rather than one from Barking. As others have pointed out, the fare from Barking to CFH is definately not £8.00 but £5.90 SDR and £5.80 CDR.

 

[EM2]

Thanks for that. I thought it was a bit strange.
Obviously NRE just being obtuse again!