Offence of not having a valid ticket

[sillymistake]

Hi,

I received a letter of intention to prosecute, I've been really worried about it, particularly the possibility of an criminal record as this will effect my fitness to practice. Please can anyone help and offer any advice.

I purchased a young person’s travel card at East Croydon Station and commenced my journey to London Victoria without realising my rail card had become damaged. Whilst on the train, I presented my ticket to the inspector and also my young person’s rail card. The ticket inspector informed me that I would need to replace my rail card because it was damaged. I asked how I could do so and he informed me that I could do so at a staffed station ticket office or online. I decided to visit the ticket office at Victoria upon his advice. I was allowed to continue my journey. There was no mention of the ticket being invalid or that I would incur a penalty fare. I sought to follow the advice given to me.

Upon arrival at London Victoria, I presented my ticket and rail card to the barrier personnel. I was told that my ticket was not valid because my rail card was damaged and illegible. I explained what I had been told by the ticket inspector on the train and that I intended to get the rail card replaced at London Victoria. Despite my explanation, I was told that unfortunately I would have to pay a penalty fare because although I have a ticket, it was not valid.

I apologised and explained that I am willing to pay the penalty fare but did not have my bank card with me or enough money as I only had £4. As a result I was told that the penalty would be sent to my address. I was also willing to give my name and address.
I expected to receive a penalty fare sent to my address that I intended to pay immediately but received this letter instead.

I received a letter of "Notice of intention to prosecute" with the intention of taking the case to the Magistrates Court. I was asked to give an account of what happened from my point of view within 7 days.

Any advice??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I also wanted to mention that the revenue protection officer for reasons not explained took my details such as my height and eye colour etc. He also read me my rights...he asked me to answer yes or no to the following questions...I was quite baffled as to why this was happening. I asked why but I was told to just answer the questions. I have never committed an offence before.

 

[Gathursty]

I would remove your name underneath your username firstly.

 

[sillymistake]

Thank you for pointing that out Gathursty. I'm new to this

 

[Titfield]

How damaged or illegible was your railcard?

 

[sillymistake]

Hi, thank you for your response.

The top of my picture was missing and also the expiry date.

 

[TheEdge]

Hi, thank you for your response.

The top of my picture was missing and also the expiry date.

So basically the most important thing was totally missing and the second most important thing was damaged, easy to see why they want to look at intent to evade fares.

As to advice it would be to give a detailed emotionless account and also obviously make clear of the first interaction.

 

[Crossover]

How 'missing' was the expiry date? Faded to the point of fairly illegible or totally missing?

Also, is it a 2 part station issued one or one bought online?

 

[Flamingo]

Million dollar question - was the railcard in date or expired?

 

[Smudger105e]

Million dollar question - was the railcard in date or expired?

Bit harsh if that is being suggested as a fine level.

 

[ian959]

Bit harsh if that is being suggested as a fine level.

Why? Having found out the expiry date was missing my immediate thought would be that it must have been deliberately cut off which would immediately suggest deliberate attempt to defraud. Not saying that is what the OP did at all but it certainly is a relevant question to ask as it probably went through the RPI's mind...

 

[Squaddie]

Why? Having found out the expiry date was missing my immediate thought would be that it must have been deliberately cut off which would immediately suggest deliberate attempt to defraud. Not saying that is what the OP did at all but it certainly is a relevant question to ask as it probably went through the RPI's mind...

I think you might have missed Loco Fitter's (admittedly rather strained) joke.

Flamingo is correct: the vital piece of information here, which the OP has not given, is whether the "damaged" railcard was in date or had expired.

 

[najaB]

Hi,
I purchased a young person’s travel card at East Croydon Station and commenced my journey to London Victoria without realising my rail card had become damaged. Whilst on the train, I presented my ticket to the inspector and also my young person’s rail card. The ticket inspector informed me that I would need to replace my rail card because it was damaged. I asked how I could do so and he informed me that I could do so at a staffed station ticket office or online. I decided to visit the ticket office at Victoria upon his advice. I was allowed to continue my journey. There was no mention of the ticket being invalid or that I would incur a penalty fare. I sought to follow the advice given to me.

This advice comes with the standard disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer but, looking at the the T&C's for the 16-25 Railcard, two points stand out:

8. The Railcard will not be valid if it is damaged.

and

6. You must carry your Railcard with you on your journey and when asked by rail staff, you must show a valid ticket and valid Railcard. If you fail to do so, you will be required to pay the full price Standard Single fare for your journey as if no ticket was purchased before starting the journey and in some cases a Penalty Fare.

I would say that by allowing you to continue to travel using you discounted ticket, rather than making you buy a full-price single fare or a penalty fare, the guard confirmed the validity of your Railcard.

At the bottom of the T&C's there is a highlighted note that "Fraudulent use of Railcards and Railcard discounted tickets may lead to criminal prosecution."

If you had an in-date (but damaged) Railcard it is quite a leap to say that you were attempting to commit fraud.

If I were in your situation, I would write to the TOC concerned laying out the facts, pointing out that you were advised by the first member of staff (train guard) that you could continue to travel, and that a second member of staff (at the gate line) 'caught' you as you were following the advice given by the first member of staff - you were going to the ticket office to get your card replaced (don't actually say this in your letter, but this is borderline entrapment).

In your letter, say that you accept that the card was damaged, but that you had no intent to commit an offence and that you are willing to pay the penalty fare and any costs in order to avoid the case having to go to court.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

What journey was the ticket for?

Presumably it was rejected by the barriers at Victoria otherwise the OP would not have had to approach the manned wide gate in the first place and could have gone straight to the ticket office to change the railcard without having it looked at by the barrier staff?

 

[hassaanhc]

I don't know - do all barriers have such tickets as a programmed reject regardless of route? Barriers seem to let child tickets through without rejecting them, so why would a YP railcard be any different?

I've had a YP Travelcard rejected at Victoria which subsequently worked at many other stations... Probably depends on how they program them.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ah... and the OP had a Travelcard on a YP, so that answers that question then, thank you.

 

[island]

Was it a plastic online railcard or a two-part station railcard?

 

[Crossover]

Was it a plastic online railcard or a two-part station railcard?

I already asked that

 

[sillymistake]

Hi thanks to everyone for your response and advice.

To answer some questions:
At the time I was unaware that it had expired because to be honest I don't use the train very often unless I am going back home from uni which is roughly every few months. I only realised last night that you could actually view your history of purchased rail cards. So yes the rail card had expired at the time but I was unaware of this, I accept that I should of sorted it out and made some enquiries before buying the discounted travel card. I did however follow the advice of the inspector on the train and got it replaced that day.

 

[SPADTrap]

I'll go out on a whim and say it was the two-part 'paper' if bits were missing along with the photo?

 

[sillymistake]

It was an online plastic one, the revenue protection officer confiscated the rail card and the ticket so I assume he'd use that as evidence against me

 

[fowler9]

I would guess it was a two part ticket since half of the photo and the expiry date were missing. Unless he flashed a bit of snapped plastic of course. Ha ha.

 

[jon0844]

Were you not able to pay part of the penalty fare (£4)? You don't need to pay it all there and then. Or did you refuse to pay the £4 you had? I guess if you weren't able to pay anything, that's why they went with the 'plan b'.

Without knowing what a plastic YPRC looks like, it does sound rather odd that it would be missing part of a photo and the expiry date. Wouldn't the date be somewhat near the middle? How does that go missing?

 

[sillymistake]

The minimum I could pay was £5.00 I was hoping to pick up a application form. Also the date was at the top but it was very tarnished so you couldn't see it.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'm sorry sillymistake that some of the "advice" on here is unreliable.

This advice comes with the standard disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer but . . . .

I'm sorry to say this but, your post goes on to make a number of assertions, at least three of which are non sequitors, never mind whether or not they would (or even could) be construed as accurate application of the facts to statute and case law.

i.e. 1. "I would say that by allowing you to continue to travel using you discounted ticket, rather than making you buy a full-price single fare or a penalty fare, the guard confirmed the validity of your Railcard."
She/he did not.

2. "At the bottom of the T&C's there is a highlighted note that "Fraudulent use of Railcards and Railcard discounted tickets may lead to criminal prosecution."

If you had an in-date (but damaged) Railcard it is quite a leap to say that you were attempting to commit fraud."
That presumption is not a logical conclusion - no 'leap' is necesary.

3. " . . . a second member of staff (at the gate line) 'caught' you as you were following the advice given by the first member of staff - you were going to the ticket office to get your card replaced" Trying to create a fact from a post-hoc rationalisation.

And having listed the non-sequitors, I'll just touch on the confusion of fact with fantasy : ". . . this is borderline entrapment"

sillymistake, it's hard to know why people might give you such opinionated 'advice' but can we please face the crucial factor that flamingo raised? You somehow didn't feel it was necessary in your opening post and request for assistance on here to mention the fact that your Railcard had expired and was therefore of no use to you. You also have not told us what you said on this matter to the Inspector (and which will now be a statement with the potential to be used as evidence).

The "advice of the inspector" to renew your railcard has no retrospective authority. It does not, for example, legitimise an illegitimate journey. Only having a valid Railcard available for inspection can do that.

You may make an apologetic appeal if you wish, but based on the facts available to me (and your reluctance to admit the most important fact), I do not expect the Company will be too eager to reach a quick out of Court resolution.

 

[GadgetMan]

I did however follow the advice of the inspector on the train and got it replaced that day.

The inspector will have given you the benefit of doubt with regards to the railcard being in date. Following on from that he asked you to get THAT particular railcard replaced due to it being damaged. Had the inspector been made aware the railcard had expired he would not have given you that advice.

What you did later was to buy a new railcard, this in my opinion was not (as far as railway is concerned classed as a replacement) "following" the inspector's advice/instructions.

 

[najaB]

I'm sorry sillymistake that some of the "advice" on here is unreliable.

You will note that I posted before the OP said that the Railcard was expired and stated that my opinion ("...if I was in your position"...) was predicated on it being in date but damaged.

 

[MyFriendMary]

How long had the railcard been expired for when you then used it for this journey?

Also, when you were spoken to by the RPI, what did they do and what did you do? Did you explain about what you were told by the Train Guard? Did you offer to pay the excess or did you focus on what the Train Guard had said?

--

Also noticed this:

I explained what I had been told by the ticket inspector on the train and that I intended to get the rail card replaced at London Victoria....

I apologised and explained that I am willing to pay the penalty fare but did not have my bank card with me or enough money as I only had £4. As a result I was told that the penalty would be sent to my address. I was also willing to give my name and address.

How were you intending to get the railcard replaced, and renewed in fact as it was not in date, if you did not have your bank card with you? Also making any contribution to a Penalty Fare is better than no contribution.

 

[cuccir]

Although the point stands that even if a valid Railcard has had it's date obscured or damaged, then the ticket is still not valid. It may matter morally - and also in the extent of discretion that might be shown - but it is still invalid.

The rail company clearly suspects that you had an out of date Railcard, and have damaged it in order to keep using it in the hope that you can persuade staff that it is still in date. Presuming that they are able to gather the evidence for this (and they should be able to given that your Railcard was purchased online) it is likely that they will chose to prosecute. There may be some merit in writing an extremely apologetic letter in response to their notice to prosecute, offering to settle for the full fare and administrative fees. If they chose to do this, it is likely to be fairly high amount (in the hundreds) reflecting the fine that you would receive if found guilty in court.

However, note that if you take this approach that there is a strong chance that they will chose to prosecute anyway, and may use your letter as evidence in court. If they take you to court, legal representation would be a good idea.

 

[sillymistake]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Ok yes I admit that it was expired but I didn't know this at the time it was only yesterday that I realised that you could view past railcards online however I understand now that it was still damaged and therefore not valid and to make it worse out of date. I truly didn't think to find out my mistake. Once at victoria I was asked to give my name and address to the RPO when I was unable to pay the fine on the spot, which I did. I assumed that the penalty fine would be sent to my address. Is it worth calling them to explain and ask if I could pay the penalty fine as I really would not want this to go to court.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is it worth sending a copy of my new rail card?

 

[MyFriendMary]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Ok yes I admit that it was expired but I didn't know this at the time it was only yesterday that I realised that you could view past railcards online however I understand now that it was still damaged and therefore not valid and to make it worse out of date.

How long had the railcard been invalid for? A week or several months?

I'm also a bit confused how you managed to damage one of the plastic railcards, they are pretty solid and the date area is a lot harder to remove compared to the old paper ones where general age would have them slowly fade.

With these the date, and other details, are printed far better onto them so when the railcard lives in a wallet for 1 - 3 years it doesn't fade away the date.

Is it worth calling them to explain and ask if I could pay the penalty fine as I really would not want this to go to court.

Personally I would respond to the letter admitting all liability and offering to settle it out of court. Some here have found some success going down that path as the TOC gets what it wants without the need to go to Court.

Is it worth sending a copy of my new rail card?

You could, with the above letter, but that does not mean the case will be dropped against you. At the point of the offence being made, you did not carry a valid railcard and, therefore, no valid ticket. Just because you have a new railcard now, doesn't make the previous offence end.