Off Peak Return - not working the barriers

[ainsworth74]

I’ll expect to see you telling everyone who makes a comment on here now who, is not a fully fledged and qualified expert the same.

When they're factually inaccurate, being corrected by multiple experts and refusing to concede that they are wrong then frankly, yes, I suspect @yorkie and others will tell people that.

Sorry you don’t find a little humour in a post amusing, of course it’s can’t be the OP who is at any fault when travelling off the itinerary they booked and of course blame the staff.

There is no requirement to use the booked itinerary and many tickets offer significantly greater validity than anticipated. No-one is expecting staff to be experts on every possible route, restriction or ticket type. There is a basic expectation that they check information before penalising passengers where there is room for doubt. Which there clearly was in this case.

 

[Watershed]

of course it’s can’t be the OP who is at any fault when travelling off the itinerary they booked and of course blame the staff.

So now you're victim blaming the OP for daring to make use of the flexibility their ticket gives them? I doubt that following and producing the itinerary they received when booking would have made any difference, as the staff were evidently of a similar mindset to you - namely that you should default to assuming the passenger is in the wrong, rather than having an open mind.

I'm afraid the staff are entirely right to be blamed here. Not for not knowing the restriction in the first place - but for rejecting the ticket out of hand and then suggesting they're doing the OP a favour by accepting a demonstrably valid ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a laudable idea, I admit, but most reports are that even when shown evidence of a ticket's validity the gateline staff refuse to believe it and are adamant that they know better, essentially they stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to listen to anything.

An idea of how to solve this here:

Preventing misinformed RPIs from issuing PFs wrongly

In response to a couple of recent threads, an idea: It's a laudable idea, I admit, but most reports are that even when shown evidence of a ticket's validity the gateline staff refuse to believe it and are adamant that they know better, essentially they stick their fingers in their ears and...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[yorkie]

Yes sir!

I’ll expect to see you telling everyone who makes a comment on here now who, is not a fully fledged and qualified expert the same.

You are the only one on this thread posting inaccurately; if anyone else does, then yes I will correct them.

Sorry you don’t find a little humour in a post amusing

In an in person conversation there are all sorts of clues to indicate humour; in a text based forum you would need to use 'emoticons' (aka 'smilies') to give similar clues.

, of course it’s can’t be the OP who is at any fault when travelling off the itinerary they booked and of course blame the staff.

Absolutely; an itinerary is evidence of a contractual entitlement to travel on the trains. No need to to look up any restriction codes if an itinerary is shown. Staff who refuse to honour a contract are bringing their employer into disrepute by reneging on a contract, unlawfully.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

As established, at a glance, an off peak ticket would not be valid at that time of day, conversation had (1 sided story given) and you’ve established someone isn’t doing their job properly rather than clarification was needed

&

There is no such thing as a 'standard' Off-Peak ticket. Each ticket has a restriction code associated with it; it would be a sweeping and inaccurate generalisation to say that Off-Peak tickets can automatically be assumed not to be valid before 09:30.

Badly worded on my part, take restriction B1 for example, “general” Valid after 0929 so not a “standard off peak” as I worded it but has a general restriction. Yes the staff should be investigating further, researching whatever they need to but doesn’t negate the comments made that staff don’t in general don’t do their job properly

I hope you aren't an RPI.

I’m not. I do check/sell/report tickets as required and do it correctly, fairly, consistently and with a lot of understanding, hence my annoying at yet another general staff bashing post.

In an in person conversation there are all sorts of clues to indicate humour; in a text based forum you would need to use 'emoticons' (aka 'smilies') to give similar clues.

Ah so my comment there requires addition clues, would have thought the reference to sock colour and tickets was irrelevant enough to point this out, or just another attempt to find fault with me?

The nature of the problem is that mistakes, errors and incompetence get reported much more widely than people doing their jobs properly.

The mere fact that this is the first thing you respond with suggests that you're approaching this situation with the blinkered mindset that the passenger should always be assumed to be in the wrong, and that the minority of staff who give the railway a bad reputation only exist in passengers' imaginations... I'm afraid it is becoming painfully obvious why you find your job such hard work, as you described in your previous thread.

I create a post about frustrations with advance purchase tickets and you assume I find my job hard work, assume I have a blinkered mind set and drag up something irrelevant to this post…like a conversation with an old ex partner.
FYI…I find it frustrating that advance purchase tickets are prioritised for sale and cause colleagues and myself issues, find it frustrating the way we are meant to deal with that and finding the ground between correcting/educating/providing customer service/adhering to the rules so what is really become “painfully obvious” is that you don’t know me, you’ve made a lot of assumptions based on a thread from a particularly bad day. when I wanted a vent and discussion (as mentioned in my post) and use it because I mentioned things that don’t fit in with the general consensus clique!

So now you're victim blaming the OP for daring to make use of the flexibility their ticket gives them? I doubt that following and producing the itinerary they received when booking would have made any difference, as the staff were evidently of a similar mindset to you - namely that you should default to assuming the passenger is in the wrong, rather than having an open mind.

Don’t assume you know me and how I work…assume makes something out of both of us.
Is it not part of healthy debate to consider all angles?
I’ve been picked up on here for how an attempt at humour was not correctly read, perhaps the tone of the OPs post is different in person, the staff tone may have been different

I’ll leave it there and agree I’m not necessarily 100% correct with facts, figures or even my opinion, I apologise for that where necessary.
Many of you have bitten back just as I have done due to a lack of tone and atmosphere associated with the comments (a common occurrence on this forum) my responses are to how I have taken a number of you too.

None of you have met me personally, I do my job to the best of my ability, praised for it and yes I am stubborn, opinionated and defensive of my job and colleagues across the board and will bite back with certain things are said that slide over the side of slating staff, like in every job there are bad ones, unsure and under trained but we are not all the same

 

[Bletchleyite]

Badly worded on my part, take restriction B1 for example, “general” Valid after 0929 so not a “standard off peak” as I worded it but has a general restriction. Yes the staff should be investigating further, researching whatever they need to but doesn’t negate the comments made that staff don’t in general don’t do their job properly

There is, once again, no such thing as a standard Off Peak*. You may well of course know certain restriction codes off the top of your head, though if someone challenges you it's only right that you check just in case you are wrong, calling one up on your phone is hardly difficult.

* Going back a bit, arguably 8A Unrestricted is standard as that's what most of them once were, bar those involving London!

I’m not. I do check/sell/report tickets as required and do it correctly, fairly, consistently and with a lot of understanding, hence my annoying at yet another general staff bashing post.

I can't abide laziness and incompetence where that disadvantages passengers, and so I'm more than happy to call it out. I'm not commenting on yourself as I've never to my knowledge been served by you, but I have had a lot of bad experiences with staff particularly in booking offices going off incorrect assumptions, and that isn't just recent but also in BR days when things were far simpler!

It's fairly simple, really - if someone questions if you're right or not, check, and if you are right show them the documentation that says you are, and if you're not apologise and let them have what they want. It's all so easily available now, even to passengers. Also, an itinerary from an accredited retailer being followed exactly cannot be wrong, it is evidence of a contract and must be accepted (though you could of course take a copy of it and report the issue via your appropriate channels to have any issue fixed).

 

[jfollows]

None of you have met me personally, I do my job to the best of my ability, praised for it and yes I am stubborn, opinionated and defensive of my job and colleagues across the board and will bite back with certain things are said that slide over the side of slating staff, like in every job there are bad ones, unsure and under trained but we are not all the same

Did you quote me without comment because you agree with me, or otherwise? I don't mind either way, of course. I'm just a long-time passenger with opinions and it's good to hear yours, I also think I'm more than happy to accept when I'm wrong - in fact I welcome it because it means I learn something.

 

[Watershed]

negate the comments made that staff don’t in general don’t do their job properly

I'm not sure where people have said this? People have quite correctly observed that there's a minority of staff who get these things wrong, and give poor customer service as a result.

at yet another general staff bashing post

How is this a staff bashing post? Someone was inconvenienced, and quite rightly wanted to discuss it. When staff get it wrong, it's entirely legitimate to complain about them and the fact that their employers haven't given them the correct training and management to avoid the situation from arising. Unfortunately, in a public facing industry it's not good enough for 90% of staff to get it right, if 10% of staff get it completely and utterly wrong (these percentages are just nominal, but you get the idea).

yes I am stubborn, opinionated and defensive of my job and colleagues across the board and will bite back with certain things are said that slide over the side of slating staff

Nobody is slating staff across the board. I think we all recognise that the majority of staff give reasonable or even excellent customer service. But sadly it's easy for the bad experiences to outweigh the good. It's rather telling that you default to biting back and defending the indefensible, rather than accepting there are problems and (like @reb0118 in the recent ScotRail thread) trying your best to help your colleagues to avoid making the same mistakes.

 

[AlterEgo]

&

Badly worded on my part, take restriction B1 for example, “general” Valid after 0929 so not a “standard off peak” as I worded it but has a general restriction.

There isn't anything like a "standard off peak", every off peak ticket has its own restriction code, defined by the fare setter. "Valid after 0929" is not even close to being a universal rule, and a competent and experienced gateline assistant's instinct would tell them that a ticket from Slade Green to Manchester would have a different - and probably more generous - off peak restriction than an Off Peak Day Travelcard from Slade Green to London.

Yes the staff should be investigating further, researching whatever they need to but doesn’t negate the comments made that staff don’t in general don’t do their job properly

This one mentioned in the thread didn't though. And it is not an isolated incident, I can tell you that for free having spent five years answering complaints about it. A significant minority of staff are indifferent or lazy and take no interest in their role.

"I'll let you off this time" is the coward's exit from a conflict. The staff member was wrong, proven to be wrong by the customer and refused to acknowledge it.

 

[yorkie]

&

Badly worded on my part, take restriction B1 for example, “general” Valid after 0929 so not a “standard off peak” as I worded it but has a general restriction.

There isn't really any such thing as a "general" restriction.

Yes the staff should be investigating further, researching whatever they need to but doesn’t negate the comments made that staff don’t in general don’t do their job properly

If staff erroneously claim a valid ticket isn't valid, when the passenger has an itinerary and is travelling at a valid time, I don't see how anyone can say the job is being done correctly.

I’m not. I do check/sell/report tickets as required and do it correctly, fairly, consistently and with a lot of understanding, hence my annoying at yet another general staff bashing post.

No-one is bashing staff who do their jobs correctly.

Ah so my comment there requires addition clues, would have thought the reference to sock colour and tickets was irrelevant enough to point this out, or just another attempt to find fault with me?

No-one is attempting to find fault with you, but you did appear to be defending staff who acted incorrectly.

I create a post about frustrations with advance purchase tickets and you assume I find my job hard work, assume I have a blinkered mind set and drag up something irrelevant to this post…like a conversation with an old ex partner.
FYI…I find it frustrating that advance purchase tickets are prioritised for sale and cause colleagues and myself issues, find it frustrating the way we are meant to deal with that and finding the ground between correcting/educating/providing customer service/adhering to the rules so what is really become “painfully obvious” is that you don’t know me, you’ve made a lot of assumptions based on a thread from a particularly bad day. when I wanted a vent and discussion (as mentioned in my post) and use it because I mentioned things that don’t fit in with the general consensus clique!

There is no clique; if people post incorrect information, or defend those who act incorrectly, it can hardly be a surprise if others disagree and challenge those posts.

Don’t assume you know me and how I work…assume makes something out of both of us.
Is it not part of healthy debate to consider all angles?
I’ve been picked up on here for how an attempt at humour was not correctly read, perhaps the tone of the OPs post is different in person, the staff tone may have been different

Let's keep this factual: the staff acted incorrectly; they should b adequately trained and appropriate safeguards put in place by the company to ensure such actions do not happen again.

I’ll leave it there and agree I’m not necessarily 100% correct with facts, figures or even my opinion, I apologise for that where necessary.

Thank you.

Many of you have bitten back just as I have done due to a lack of tone and atmosphere associated with the comments (a common occurrence on this forum) my responses are to how I have taken a number of you too.

None of you have met me personally, I do my job to the best of my ability, praised for it and yes I am stubborn, opinionated and defensive of my job and colleagues across the board and will bite back with certain things are said that slide over the side of slating staff, like in every job there are bad ones, unsure and under trained but we are not all the same

You are not being accused of doing your job incorrectly. You were challenged for what you said which appeared to be defending incorrect actions. Nothing more than that.

If you do your job correctly, that's great. If everyone else did, these issues wouldn't arise.

No-one is expected to know every restriction and no-one is suggesting that anyone should learn them all.

 

[AdamWW]

If staff erroneously claim a valid ticket isn't valid, when the passenger has an itinerary and is travelling at a valid time, I don't see how anyone can say the job is being done correctly.

I think the OP was not on their original itinerary - they had been originally routed via the Elizabeth Line but chose to avoid it due to disruption.

However I agree with an earlier comment that even if they had shown an itinerary for the journey they were actually making it may well not have helped.

I have been told that I can't use a journey planner to determine ticket validity - even one run by the TOC I was using (as it happens in another case of failure to appreciate that not all off-peak tickets have the same restrictions).

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Much as I wouldn’t want to see gateline staff replaced by robots, I wonder if this thread could be cited in the future by those pushing to implement just such a change…

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Much as I wouldn’t want to see gateline staff replaced by robots, I wonder if this thread could be cited in the future by those pushing to implement just such a change…

I've got some bad news for you about the barriers we already have (when used with tickets that they've been programmed to cope with)...