Off Peak Return and Off Peak Day Return Availability

[225fan]

As with many operators, Scotrail have the policy of having Off Peak Day Return tickets available on short journeys and Off Peak Return tickets available on longer journeys to maintain a simple fare structure.

(See http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/meet-managers-qa-2011).

To me this seems quite confusing to a customer due to anomolies such as (these examples assume off-peak travel):

• Glasgow to North Berwick is available as either an Off Peak Day Return (£19.50) or an Off Peak Return (£24.80). This passes through both Edinburgh and Wallyford.
• Glasgow to Wallyford is only available as an Off Peak Return (£23.40). Therefore if you want to make a day trip to Wallyford, you are cheaper buying a ticket to North Berwick (£19.50).
• Glasgow to Edinburgh is only available as Off Peak Day Return (£12.60). Therefore if you are travelling out one day and returning the next, the cheapest way is to buy an Off Peak Return to Wallyford (£23.40) rather than two singles (£25.00).

Would it not be simpler to the customer to consistently make all tickets available as either Off Peak Day Return or Off Peak Return? Perhaps renaming Off Peak Return to Off Peak Period Return would remove confusion. This would arguably remove anomolies such as the above (and possibly others where splitting a journey into two tickets can be cheaper).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would it not be simpler to the customer to consistently make all tickets available as either Off Peak Day Return or Off Peak Return?

The problem is:-

1. Re-use is more likely on shorter journeys as there is less opportunity to be checked.

2. You are more likely to need a period return on a longer journey.

Personally, I think we should replace everything with singles with the *possible* exception of single-piece day returns/Travelcards. That's as simple as it can get, and makes yield management better (I bought an Anytime Day Return to London this morning as I needed to go in the peak, I now have no incentive to avoid the evening peak).

Neil

 

[Merseysider]

I would imagine BoJ restrictions would (theoretically) prevent off-peak returns being used for shorter journeys than what's printed on the ticket, but looking at some of the restriction codes this isn't always the case.

I don't believe many walk-up passengers would spend the time figuring all this out though, as it's not a glaring loophole, just a couple of quid here and there which FSR are probably not too bothered about.

 

[225fan]

I hadn't thought of the problem with ticket re-use if they made the policy across-the-board. Ironically out of the journeys above Edinburgh-Glasgow is the one that wouldn't suffer the problem as there are barriers either side that automatically retain "completed" tickets. I do get the idea that a ticket is more likely to be stamped on a longer journey though. The idea of making everything singles would definitely make triangular journeys (e.g. Glasgow -> Edinburgh -> Stirling -> Glasgow) more fairly priced.
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I would imagine BoJ restrictions would (theoretically) prevent off-peak returns being used for shorter journeys than what's printed on the ticket, but looking at some of the restriction codes this isn't always the case.

So I take it that with a Glasgow - Wallyford ticket, even though you are allowed a break of journey at Edinburgh, it is only valid on the premise that you do go on to complete the journey? I know this is the case with an Advance ticket (e.g. with Glasgow to Berwick-Upon-Tweed you may be required to change trains at Edinburgh but you are not permitted to terminate your journey there) but didn't realise it applied to Off Peak Return too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So I take it that with a Glasgow - Wallyford ticket, even though you are allowed a break of journey at Edinburgh, it is only valid on the premise that you do go on to complete the journey? I know this is the case with an Advance ticket (e.g. with Glasgow to Berwick-Upon-Tweed you may be required to change trains at Edinburgh but you are not permitted to terminate your journey there) but didn't realise it applied to Off Peak Return too.

It doesn't, provided BoJ is permitted, which it often isn't on the outward. However it is pretty much completely unenforced.

Neil

 

[Merseysider]

Restriction 3A, for Glasgow - London off-peak return, bars BoJ. Thus you couldn't use this to leave partway through the journey.

Restriction 8F, on the other hand, for Glasgow - Wallyford off peak return, does not bar BoJ, so this ticket could be used to leave partway through the journey.

You can access station facilities in all cases, for example the toilet on the other side of the barriers, or that crowded WHSmith near the station exit. In addition, the Conditions of Carriage state;

You can start, break or resume your journey using trains on which your ticket is valid unless you are told about particular restrictions that apply to the use of your ticket.

So if you buy your ticket from a TVM or the ticket seller doesn't tell you about BoJ, it's unenforceable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can access station facilities in all cases, for example the toilet on the other side of the barriers, or that crowded WHSmith near the station exit.

Then you walk out of the station and don't come back.

That's why BoJ on Off Peak tickets is completely unenforceable, other than you not being permitted to start long or resume a broken journey.

Neil

 

[225fan]

Thanks for the replies, it's useful to know. I did wonder how they could stop you leaving the station if you are connecting between trains in different parts of the station.

 

[Merseysider]

Thanks for the replies, it's useful to know. I did wonder how they could stop you leaving the station if you are connecting between trains in different parts of the station.

Also worth remembering is some Advance tickets or off-peak returns (where BoJ would normally be forbidden) require an out of station interchange. For example, Glasgow Central - Southport has advance "Virgin&connections" quotas that involve a walk from Wigan North Western to Wigan Wallgate. Entirely possible to miss the prominent signs and accidentally take a wrong turn out of WGN to go walkabout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks for the replies, it's useful to know. I did wonder how they could stop you leaving the station if you are connecting between trains in different parts of the station.

They couldn't in any practical sense.

Neil