Off Peak Day TC query

[Techniquest]

Hi all,

Really silly question cometh, but can't find owt on the TfL site to confirm either way, so having to ask the ticketing gurus here:

On Saturday 22nd May, I'll be buying an Off Peak Day Travelcard, Z1-6. Now from memory, these certainly used to be valid until 0400/0430 the following morning (in this case, Sunday 23rd May). However, since I cannot find anything to confirm this, can someone confirm this is or is not the case still?

Thanks in advance,

Julian

 

[A60K]

It is still the case, yes.

 

[yorkie]

From Avantix Traveller NFM05:

"Off-Peak Day Travelcards
(First and Standard) and
Family Travelcards:
Valid for travel throughout
the selected London Fare Zones
from 0930 Mondays to Fridays
(0001 Saturdays, Sundays and
Public Holidays) on the day of
validity and for any journey
that starts before 0430 on the
following day. "

 

[Deerfold]

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

To get the validity times you have to hover over the question mark after the ticket type.

Note (to reiterate Yorkie) that it's valid for any journey that *starts* by 0430 so you could still be on a nightbus an hour or more later. I'm guessing it's no accident that the first tube appears to be at 0437 (from Hammersmith).

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks chaps, most appreciated

 

[jon0844]

I'm guessing it's no accident that the first tube appears to be at 0437 (from Hammersmith).

True, although you'd have to be seriously hardcore to stay up (or get up that early) to use it to get to work/home and avoid having to buy a new ticket even if it was starting at 0429!

 

[John @ home]

I'm guessing it's no accident that the first tube appears to be at 0437 (from Hammersmith).

The first tram is 0416 Therapia Lane - New Addington.

 

[Deerfold]

True, although you'd have to be seriously hardcore to stay up (or get up that early) to use it to get to work/home and avoid having to buy a new ticket even if it was starting at 0429!

Really? Last weekend I got the 0533 train after a night out. I used to go to the all night club in Manchester partly to avoid taxi fares - I could get the bus back to Yorkshire afterwards at abut 0700. And I have fairly regularly got a coach from Cambridge to Stansted at 0315 then Stansted to London to save more than 50% on the rail fare of the first train.

None of these avoided needing a separate ticket but they are/were all fare saving strategies.

 

[bb21]

They are valid until 0430 not 0429 as you still find on some literature. Last Saturday morning I happened to board a nightbus from Trafalgar Square at precisely 0430 (ticket machine) and my Oyster was capped with the previous day.

 

[jon0844]

None of these avoided needing a separate ticket but they are/were all fare saving strategies.

My point was that you'd travel so early/late to avoid having to buy a ticket for the 'following' day.

If you'd been out partying, I can see how it might be quite good to get home at 5-6am without buying a new ticket (if the journey had started before 0430). But, I doubt this would be such a big problem that anyone needs to start looking at changing the rules or adjusting timetables!

 

[Deerfold]

My point was that you'd travel so early/late to avoid having to buy a ticket for the 'following' day.

If you'd been out partying, I can see how it might be quite good to get home at 5-6am without buying a new ticket (if the journey had started before 0430). But, I doubt this would be such a big problem that anyone needs to start looking at changing the rules or adjusting timetables!

Though this does raise one question in my mind. If you buy a paper travelcard it's valid from 0001 o0n day 1 to 0430 on day 2. If you catch buses/trains/tubes between 0001 and 0430 on day 1 which day's cap do they count towards? Ideally they'd count towards whichever benefitted the passenger, but I suspect they count towards the previous day's (day 0) potentially making Oyster more expensive.

 

[RJ]

Note that for Oyster Prepay;

All journeys starting from 04.30 count as that days travel. The day ends at 04.29 the following morning. Therefore, any one starting a journey at 03.00 and touches out after 04.29 will be charged for two separate incomplete journeys at the appropriate rate.

 

[yorkie]

Good old Oyster PAYG :roll: you can always rely on a farce with it. Is it designed to catch people out or something? Certainly seems like it.

 

[RJ]

Good old Oyster PAYG :roll: you can always rely on a farce with it. Is it designed to catch people out or something? Certainly seems like it.

The database is riddled with errors, mostly down to complications with the OSI system. I've received penalty fares for undertaking perfectly reasonable journeys, such as Brixton - King's Cross - St Pancras - Hendon. It was an immediate interchange at St Pancras. When I touched out at Hendon, the reader said "Enter", which made no sense as I had touched in at St Pancras to open the barriers less than an hour before. I then received an email from TfL a couple of days later.

Due to an operational issue, we calculate that you are due a refund of
?6.60. This is now ready for pick-up at Burnt Oak.

REFUND DETAILS

Reason: Overcharged because of an operational issue
Value: ?6.60
Reference:
Pick-up location: Burnt Oak
Status: Ready for pick-up

To pick up your refund, simply touch your Oyster card on a yellow
reader at the gate, or on a yellow validator on the platform as you
start your Tube or DLR journey.

Please keep your Oyster card number safe. You may need to quote this
number if you call the Oyster helpline on 0845 330 9876 (8am - 8pm
daily).

Yours sincerely,

Oyster Customer Services Manager
tfl.gov.uk/oyster

 

[yorkie]

I was told you cannot be penalty fared for being off route. Is TfL exempt from that rule? They may be in breach of their license to issue penalty fares but I am not familiar enough with the legislation to say either way. Did you successfully appeal?

 

[RJ]

This is what happened;

An Oyster Penalty Fare is basically a non-refunded entry charge. I started the day with £5.25 credit. The card is supposed to cap at £5 and essentially becomes a 1 Day Travelcard. A penalty fare disables any cap for the day.

I started at Brixton at 10:05, touched out at King's Cross, where the barrier indicated the correct amount was deducted. I walked straight to St Pancras (OSI table states 40mins break permitted) and touched in, no problem. When I attemted to touch out at Hendon, the reader read "Enter" when it should have said exit, taken off more credit and left me with £1.65 or something.

I tried to get on a bus but the card had deducted a £4.20 entry fee at Hendon, so it was in arrears. I went to the nearest tube station, Burnt Oak and had the £4.20 refunded on the FasTIS+ machine. Although I now had £1.65 credit, the cap had been disabled. I made another journey which put the card into arrears.

So basically, I've undertaken a reasonably journey, been unfairly penalised by the card and the £5 I allocated to a 1 Day Travelcard on the Oyster had gone down the drain. I went to a different ticket office to get this sorted out, but they insisted they couldn't do anything and pointed me to the Oyster helpline. I rang them, but they do not receive journey data for a given day until midnight on the following day, so there was nothing they could do either.

I told the ticket office clerk that I had no money and banked on that £5 to get me around as much as I needed. I essentially made out that I was stranded, but they did sod all to help. The clerk recognised that I was not at fault, as I had a receipt showing my journey history for the day and the dodgy action at Hendon, but there was nothing they could do. In the end I gave up and put another £5 on the card.

The following day, I rang the helpline who gave me £9.xx to claim at a station of my choice, then I received the above email from TfL. That was all very nice, but I had £5 on the day and expected unlimited travel from that, which I was not given and was not rectified on the day. The least they could have done was print me a paper travelcard once they saw I was not at fault .

 

[Techniquest]

Pretty much why I don't use Oyster unless it's purely point to point journeys or for bus travel. I don't see any benefit for it otherwise.

 

[swt_passenger]

I was told you cannot be penalty fared for being off route. Is TfL exempt from that rule? They may be in breach of their license to issue penalty fares but I am not familiar enough with the legislation to say either way. Did you successfully appeal?

This isn't a penalty fare though is it. It's a maximum cash fare. Penalty fares are dished out by revenue protection for the normal reasons, like not having a ticket at all or not validating Oyster PAYG cards by not touching in.

Using the term 'penalty fare' for a 'maximum cash fare' just confuses the situation IMHO...