Off-Peak Cut off - Inconsistency?

[XCTurbostar]

Its recently been highlighted to me how inconsistent the Off-Peak to Peak cut off is between some operators;

For example, Avanti state;

Off-Peak times start at 09:30 from Monday to Friday in cities and large towns, and at 09:00 everywhere else. If your train's scheduled to depart after this time in the morning, you can usually travel with an Off-Peak ticket, although evening restrictions may apply.

This however does not apply from Nuneaton (10:43), Rugby (10:34), Warrington Bank Quay (10:25), Macclesfield (10:37) or Wilmslow (10:13) (and others) where the first Off-Peak service towards the south is after 10am. There is a complete list HERE.

National Rail state;

In general, Off-Peak hours begin at 09:30 from Monday to Friday in cities and large towns, and at 09:00 everywhere else. If your train is scheduled to depart after this time in the morning, you can usually travel with an Off-Peak ticket, although evening restrictions may apply.

I think these statements are ambiguous at best and surely travelling on any train after 09:30 from any of these stations would be broadly within the national rail guidelines? Whilst I'm sure most of us will understand that off-peak is a sliding scale, this doesnt really help those not knowing which train they are intending to travel on when booking..

 

[Mcr Warrior]

With Avanti, suspect that it's partly to do with the scheduled arrival time if travelling into London Euston, rather than the departure time. No midweek off peak arrivals before 1130?

 

[XCTurbostar]

With Avanti, suspect that it's partly to do with the scheduled arrival time if travelling into London Euston, rather than the departure time. No midweek off peak arrivals before 1130?

I had thought that was the case but I was unable to find that written anywhere. Happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Watershed]

It's absolutely pointless relying on general statements - Off-Peak restrictions vary so substantially that they can't really be generalised in a helpful way.

Avanti's PDF is correct if you have a ticket between those listed stations and London Terminals, but there are some fares to/from stations beyond London that would have different restrictions.

 

[XCTurbostar]

It's absolutely pointless relying on general statements - Off-Peak restrictions vary so substantially that they can't really be generalised in a helpful way.

Avanti's PDF is correct if you have a ticket between those listed stations and London Terminals, but there are some fares to/from stations beyond London that would have different restrictions.

What is the general guidance for stations not on the Avanti list then? This is my core point, if you dont have access to web tools then a passenger would have no understanding of what times are valid.
Nuneaton is not on the Avanti list yet the 09:43 is not valid but its unclear why this is.

 

[Watershed]

What is the general guidance for stations not on the Avanti list then?

You can't give general guidance because it depends completely on the restriction code text for the ticket you're buying. Some Off-Peak tickets have no restrictions at all, others aren't valid until really late in morning.

If it's a ticket priced by Avanti for stations from Preston and south thereof, or Chester/Shrewsbury and east thereof, it will likely have restriction code 2C which prevents you from arriving at Euston before 11:30.

This is my core point, if you dont have access to web tools then a passenger would have no understanding of what times are valid.

Given that the full text of restriction codes is only available online, I suppose so, yes. But if they're buying from a 'dumb' TVM, it gives you a summary of the restrictions and generally prevents you from buying Off-Peak tickets until they're valid. If they're using a journey-planner based TVM then it would only offer Off-Peak fares for trains they're valid on. A ticket office would be able to explain the restrictions and again, would only sell Off-Peak tickets for a valid train.

If the customer can't remember when their ticket is valid, it has the restriction code link printed on it.

Nuneaton is not on the Avanti list yet the 09:43 is not valid but its unclear why this is.

Because the 09:43 arrives in Euston at 10:41, and a Nuneaton to London Off-Peak Return would have restriction code 2C if routed "Any Permitted" or "not via Coventry/Birmingham" - which as above, isn't valid to arrive in Euston before 11:30.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Thanks for the clarification @Watershed , It would have been nice if Avanti's own website would list 2C as key restriction code for these tickets since I'm certain that many wouldnt read this prior to travelling.

 

[gazthomas]

Off peak tickets are certainly valid on the 7.33 from Llandudno Junction

 

[XCTurbostar]

Interesting, this arrives before 1130. Avanti's own documents list the 09:37 as the first Off-Peak service.

 

[Watershed]

Looks like an error in their document. They have forgotten that stations west of Chester have restriction code VK for tickets to London, which allows arrivals from 10am - hence the 07:33 is valid.