Off Lease Rolling Stock Updates

[Mordac]

Here's a couple of easy ones:

Grand Central
Out:
3xHSTs (6 Class 43 + 16 Mk. 3 coaches) Destination Unknown

In:
5xClass 180 from GWR
4xClass 180 from Hull Trains

Hull Trains
Out:
4xClass 180 to Grand Central

In:
5xClass 802 newbuild from Hitachi


Corrections welcome of course!

 

[D365]

Here's another easy one:

Southeastern

IN: ...

 

[northwichcat]

Here's another easy one:

Southeastern

IN: ...

Nothing confirmed but plenty of rumours of potential inbound cascades.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think making this thread a sticky would just result in it quickly becoming overwhelmed with both hard information and speculation.

Rolling stock plans seem to change by the month at the moment, so for any such thread to be a "ready reference" on a national basis it would probably need fairly serious levels of moderation and editing.

 

[northwichcat]

I think making this thread a sticky would just result in it quickly becoming overwhelmed with both hard information and speculation.

Rolling stock plans seem to change by the month at the moment, so for any such thread to be a "ready reference" on a national basis it would probably need fairly serious levels of moderation and editing.

Indeed. I created one a while back listing all the DMUs set to be released by their current operators and which ones had been found new homes but it turned in to a class 153 speculation thread.

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed. I created one a while back listing all the DMUs set to be released by their current operators and which ones had been found new homes but it turned in to a class 153 speculation thread.

That's probably one of the threads I'm thinking of. After you put so much effort into trying to come up with a detailed analysis it just gets swamped after a few days; and that's when you are only trying to deal with a subset of all changes.

 

[RobShipway]

I think making this thread a sticky would just result in it quickly becoming overwhelmed with both hard information and speculation.

Rolling stock plans seem to change by the month at the moment, so for any such thread to be a "ready reference" on a national basis it would probably need fairly serious levels of moderation and editing.

Can I correct you on your point rolling stock plans do not change by the month, they seem to change by the week and by the day as well... If you listen to rumours.

 

[Mordac]

A couple more:

Caledonian Sleeper
Out:
22xMk.2 Coaches
53xMk.3 Coaches

In:
75xMk.5(?) Coaches, newbuild from CAF

Not gonna try to do the locos.


TfL Rail aka Crossrail
Out:
44xClass 315 (I think) destination unknown (scrap?)

In:
66xClass 345 newbuild from Bombardier

 

[swt_passenger]

Re sudden changes, in the relevant threads tonight we now see a switch of Thameslink services from Southern to Southeastern routes.

AFAICS this was totally unexpected, but will obviously mean some Southern routes that would have got 700s will now presumably stay with whatever they have now, and if 700s will be running to SE destinations that moves their rolling stock goalposts a fair way too...

 

[TheEdge]

Greater Anglia Franchise

A magical mystery. But it'll probably include 37s somewhere.

GTR

Out;

Staff with morale
Passengers.

In;

Charles Horton's ego.
One very overworked delay attribution clerk.

 

[Class 466]

Re sudden changes, in the relevant threads tonight we now see a switch of Thameslink services from Southern to Southeastern routes.

AFAICS this was totally unexpected, but will obviously mean some Southern routes that would have got 700s will now presumably stay with whatever they have now, and if 700s will be running to SE destinations that moves their rolling stock goalposts a fair way too...

Unexpected to some

 

[greatkingrat]

London Overground

IN
45 x Class 710 (4 car)

OUT
8 x Class 172 (2 car)
17 x Class 315 (4 car)
14 x Class 317 (4 car)

 

[Mordac]

Trying to keep this going!

Merseyrail
Out:
32xClass 507 to (probably) scrap
27xClass 508 to (probably) scrap

In:
50xTBA from TBA

 

[Clansman]

Could always use this thread as a collection of data and put all the information into one thread which could then be stuck, to act as an information database? Although as previous folk have already said, stock is constantly being shifted from one place to another more or less.

 

[D365]

Could always use this thread as a collection of data and put all the information into one thread which could then be stuck, to act as an information database?

Also the minor but niggling issue of who would be willing to give up their time, to ensure said information is kept up to date.

 

[321over360]

Nothing confirmed but plenty of rumours of potential inbound cascades.

Southeastern are due to receive some 377s by the December 2017 timetable from GTR as it is part of the TSGN franchise agreement that this cascade happens

 

[SF-02]

Its not confirmed. Like much else with Southeastern, its a case of something will happen and be announced soon. Then maybe it will. Then nothing happens.

 

[Class 466]

Southeastern are due to receive some 377s by the December 2017 timetable from GTR as it is part of the TSGN franchise agreement that this cascade happens

This is old news. Expect confirmation shortly of a stock cascade much sooner than December 2017.

 

[ScotGG]

Well they need it, especially on the SE Metro lines to Dartford and Hayes. Growth rates there far outstrip the longer distance lines out into Kent, and some of those metro lines with the biggest growth are seeing some large peak time frequency reductions very soon. Ideally everything after that would be 12 cars but that can't happen.

 

[D365]

Do bear in mind the recent changes to the post-2018 Thameslink service plans which will apparently take over some of the Southeastern routes instead (using Class 700s) and therefore release their own metro stock for strengthening.

 

[ScotGG]

Until they decide next year that wont now happen and then stagnation continues! Always vague plans but hardly ever any firm commitments happening. And that's in 2018 - not much good with reductions in frequency on the Greenwich line from September.

And even if TL happens the lack of SDO on networkers that are cascaded and stabling locations planned, plus class 376 being 5 car, means 12-car running is hampered.

Look at the Hayes line for example. It should be 12-cars in the peaks as hardly high frequency, and much housing now being built along it, but 10 cars is likely to be the norm for the next 5 years at least. Even some Networkers being free by 2018 wont mean much if diagrams continue along the lines of a train going Dartford to Cannon Street (restricted to 10 car due to Woolwich Dockyard) then Cannon Street to Hayes etc. Lots of the lines have diagrams that are closely linked. Another is the Woolwich line trains running around the loop via Sidcup. 10 cars is the limit.

 

[Class 466]

Not sure if it's been posted already, but SN will be getting it's 377/2s (For MK Services) back along with the 377/5s - which will go into the same pool as the 377/1/4s.

Whether they will be keeping all their 377/1s remains to be seen.

 

[321over360]

Until they decide next year that wont now happen and then stagnation continues! Always vague plans but hardly ever any firm commitments happening. And that's in 2018 - not much good with reductions in frequency on the Greenwich line from September.

And even if TL happens the lack of SDO on networkers that are cascaded and stabling locations planned, plus class 376 being 5 car, means 12-car running is hampered.

Look at the Hayes line for example. It should be 12-cars in the peaks as hardly high frequency, and much housing now being built along it, but 10 cars is likely to be the norm for the next 5 years at least. Even some Networkers being free by 2018 wont mean much if diagrams continue along the lines of a train going Dartford to Cannon Street (restricted to 10 car due to Woolwich Dockyard) then Cannon Street to Hayes etc. Lots of the lines have diagrams that are closely linked. Another is the Woolwich line trains running around the loop via Sidcup. 10 cars is the limit.

Yeah as the Crayford signals can only do 10 car working if going round the loop therefore unless the "Crayford Creek" as it is known in the industry is changed to allow 12 cars through, a 10 car is all that is possible.

Though if SE do get the 377s then this could allow the 465/9 units to possibly go back to being Metro only stock again instead of CST/CHX to Tun Wells units which would allow some routes to go 12 car in the peaks

 

[Class 466]

The July issue of Modern Railways reports that SE are hoping to get 36x 4 car 377s instead of the previously planned 25x 377 and 319 option.

 

[MatthewRead]

The July issue of Modern Railways reports that SE are hoping to get 36x 4 car 377s instead of the previously planned 25x 377 and 319 option.

Of course 319s accelerate slower than the more modern stock on SouthEastern metals so why would they want them?

 

[SF-02]

Of course 319s accelerate slower than the more modern stock on SouthEastern metals so why would they want them?

Yet more delay though isn't it? 319s would be free in late 2016. 377s from late 2017. Im struggling to board some trains now. God help people visiting guys hospital.

 

[Class 466]

Yet more delay though isn't it? 319s would be free in late 2016. 377s from late 2017. Im struggling to board some trains now. God help people visiting guys hospital.

The first wave of 377s will be with Southeastern by the December TT Change.

 

[Clansman]

Just trying to work out the number of Mk3s and 43s going spare come all the stock changes. Am I right in saying that there will be;

79 x Class 43 locomotives
562 x Mk3 carriages (day)
52 x Mk3 carriages (sleeper)

...or have I missed out potential off leases from Network Rail and DRS? Might be off a little as I'm not sure if AGA's figures on Porterbrook's portfolio include the ex-Pretendolino stock.

I've not taken into account EMT, XC, ATW, CH or the Night Riviera coaches - all of which I assume will continue to be leased out to their current operators?

 

[superalbs]

Looks like GWR are to keep their Class 143s until 2020 instead of 2017 now. Oh well. :/

 

[D365]

Looks like GWR are to keep their Class 143s until 2020 instead of 2017 now. Oh well. :/

Is that really a surprise by now?