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starrymarkb

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Just been having a nose around the Leipziger Verkehrsbetriebe website for a future trip and it appears you can buy single and day tickets online to print at home for immediate travel...

Could this work in the UK or would the bus companies baulk at having to publicise their fares...
 
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Greenback

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I doubt that operators who use zonal or flat rate fares would want to hdie their fares would they?

I think the main problme is with the traditional fare stages. The fare table sfor these can be pretty complicated, and it would take a lot of effort to upload them all into an online system. And the more complicated it is, the mor epotential ther eis for mistakes to be made on both the customer and company side. The costs would not be worth it.

Having said that, I'd love to see day tickets available on line. I caused great consternation with a driver once by asking for a West Wales Day Rover. After twenty minutes and two radio calls to control I eventually got one!
 

trentside

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Some operators are already experimenting with mobile ticketing, notably Arriva and Velvet, while others are pressing ahead with smartcard schemes (Trent, Stagecoach, Go-Ahead).

Personally, for single or return journeys over a short distance, I think buying online and printing at home would be more complex than buying onboard, or using a smartcard.
 

WestCoast

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Not really the same thing, but one of my local bus companies (a municipal operator) offers cut price day tickets (plus weekly and monthly tickets) through local PayPoint outlets - usually independent newsagents and off licenses with the addition of Co-Op convenience stores.



 

tbtc

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others are pressing ahead with smartcard schemes (Trent, Stagecoach, Go-Ahead)

First Group did spend a lot of money trialling such a thing in Bradford about ten years ago, but has this become a damp suib like many of their "initiatives"? (bendibuses/ FTR etc)
 

ChrisCooper

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Especially for regular journies there would have to be a reasonable discount to make it worth the printing cost too. Your talking about 10p a page for most printers. Black and white is cheaper, but I bet they would be colour (and whilst printers can be set to print black and white the average user perhaps wouldn't know how and it's easy to forget). There is also the issue of waste, a full A4 sheet is not efficient for a bus ticket. It's fine for print at home reservations (for train, air or coach) where there will also be details of the journey, connections, seats etc included (which the traveller would often have printed off anyway even if having a normal ticket), but a bus ticket really doesn't need to be any more than the small things usually provided, and putting more information or even worse filling or adverts would just make it more expensive to print (can imagine some of the rip off companies doing that, print a big company logo, a few lines with the ticket details, then a big advert, all full colour). Mobile ticketing or smartcards are best for pre-pay on buses (and also for basic train journies).
 

radamfi

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I think the main problme is with the traditional fare stages. The fare table sfor these can be pretty complicated, and it would take a lot of effort to upload them all into an online system. And the more complicated it is, the mor epotential ther eis for mistakes to be made on both the customer and company side. The costs would not be worth it.

You don't necessarily need a flat/zonal fare system in order to provide online fares. The www.9292ov.nl website can work out the OV-Chipkaart single fare for any bus trip in the Netherlands. Single trips using OV-Chipkaart are priced by km (plus a 0.79 euro initial boarding fee if it is more than 35 minutes since you left your last bus/tram/metro) and the distance between every stop in the country has been measured. You can ask it to give you the timetable and fare for a several hours long trip by local bus from Amsterdam to Groningen and it will give you the fare for each bus you go on, plus boarding fees.
 

ChrisCooper

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Day tickets are a good idea, especially as an A4 printout gives plenty of space to show details of validity, which can often help the staff as much as the customers (I'm sure I'm not the only one who tends to carry a printout of validity when using day tickets anyway, for my own referance and also to show anyone who tries to tell me it's not valid when it is). Only issue with weekly or longer tickets is durability. An inkjet printed A4 sheet is not really likely to last that long, especially if being folded and unfolded often, perhaps rained on. I suppose it's not too bad if there is an easy way to print out replacements (that doesn't require remembering to save a copy).
 

Greenback

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You don't necessarily need a flat/zonal fare system in order to provide online fares. The www.9292ov.nl website can work out the OV-Chipkaart single fare for any bus trip in the Netherlands. Single trips using OV-Chipkaart are priced by km (plus a 0.79 euro initial boarding fee if it is more than 35 minutes since you left your last bus/tram/metro) and the distance between every stop in the country has been measured. You can ask it to give you the timetable and fare for a several hours long trip by local bus from Amsterdam to Groningen and it will give you the fare for each bus you go on, plus boarding fees.

OK then, you don't need a zonal or flat rate system, you need a zonal/flat rate/mileage based system! It doesn;t really make much difference due to the primitve way in which we run things here!
 

radamfi

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OK then, you don't need a zonal or flat rate system, you need a zonal/flat rate/mileage based system! It doesn;t really make much difference due to the primitve way in which we run things here!

In some ways it should be easier, as British buses tend not to allow through fares apart from day/season tickets. So it would be a small matter of providing two drop down boxes, both containing the fare stages. As a minimum, fare tables should be provided online. It can be done, even today. Stagecoach Oxford and Oxford Bus Company provide them at their websites.
 

Greenback

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I'm no expert by any means, but I'm sure it's one thing to put a table online and another to create an itneractive system that will use the data from each table to facilitate at home printing.
 

starrymarkb

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I'm no expert by any means, but I'm sure it's one thing to put a table online and another to create an itneractive system that will use the data from each table to facilitate at home printing.

It shouldn't be that hard, The on bus machines manage
 

cainebj

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Stagecoach North West have trialled manned on street ticket sales, and still use them successfully in the central Lake District. They're just a standard bus ticket machine, mounted on top of a purpose built trolley, containing a 24v battery, change bags, spare ticket rolls etc. Over the Summer months, one can be found at the bus stops at Windermere Railway Station. They've also been in use at Carlisle, and recently in Workington Bus Station to help speed up the boarding process when buses are late running.

Going to online sales, it wouldn't really be any different than buying a single or return ticket off the National Rail website..... It simply works off a database type system, as is used by on-vehicle ticket machines. Select the fare stage you'll be boarding, select the fare stage you'll be alighting the bus, and a price will be brought up from the table, and through means of a "Report" feature as in Microsoft Excel, a relevant ticket can be printed. The fare tables should already be on the operators computer system, to programme up the ticket machines, it would just be a case of linking that data to a web based ticket sales system.

Unmanned on-street sales are still possible, as seen in London, and on Manchester Metrolink tram system. Each machine will be set to a default alighting place, being where the machine is located. The passenger just has to select where they'll be getting off, the price will be shown on the screen, they insert money and their ticket will be printed.
 

Deerfold

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Unmanned on-street sales are still possible, as seen in London, and on Manchester Metrolink tram system. Each machine will be set to a default alighting place, being where the machine is located. The passenger just has to select where they'll be getting off, the price will be shown on the screen, they insert money and their ticket will be printed.

Rather easier in London where there's just one bus fare. All the machine has to know is where it is which is unlikely to change.

No-one should be paying £2.20 for a bus fare in London anyway - not unless they're never going to catch more than 3.
 
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