Odd Stations to Change At

[Mark_re]

Hi all,

Just a thought. Are there any surprising stations which online journey planners or paper timetables suggest a change at? The new XC timetable has a note 'change at Durham from 27 May', but I can't find the affected train. I know in the past Durham was sometimes a change for Darlington (when XC and GNER ran some services Newcastle - Durham - York), but I assume this is because the interchange time at Durham is less than at Newcastle, so it would make sense if connecting to an EC train to Scotland if it was minutes behind the XC train. I may be wrong.

I've had suggested changes at Chesterfield and Warminster before, but these aside, are there any other surprising suggested changes out there?

(I'm not suggesting stations where you could change, but only where they are suggested by the timetable)

Mark

 

[Welshman]

Where possible, to ease congestion, Cross Country have a policy of directing people away from changing at Birmingham New St, so the NR Journey Planner sometimes suggests changing at Leamington Spa, or on journeys from the SW to the NW, at Stafford.

As you say, the suggested Durham connection could be because quirks of timetabling may mean an interchange there is within the recommended connectional allowances but outside it at Newcastle. Sometimes, also, interchanges are recommended at smaller and unexpected stations because it will be a same-platform connection, rather than at the larger[and expected interchange] where use of steps/lifts may be required.

This sometimes happens, for example, with suggestions that connections from the local stations south of Wakefield Westgate on the Doncaster-Leeds line, to northbound Cross-Country services be made at Wakefield Westgate, and not Leeds, as you may expect.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Do you mean (for example)

The journey planner for a trip from Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour suggests changing at Barnham.

 

[cuccir]

Not quite the same, and not always the most reliable data set, but the station usage statistics record interchange numbers. From what I can tell in the methodology, it is a statistical likelihood figure based on tickets purchased for routes and typical passenger movements etc.

These figures produce 10 stations with fewer than ten predicted interchanges in 09/10:

1: Rose Grove
2: Bootle New Strand, Clapton, Dorchester West, Fishguard Harbour, Rugeley Town
6: Upper Warlingham
7: Huntingdon
8: Helensburgh Central
10: Kings Lynn

By contrast they reckon that 3203 should have changed at Durham!

 

[imagination]

I'm wondering now how one would change trains at Fishguard Harbour.

 

[dzug2]

The Chiltern site gives changing at Solihull rather than Moor Street to get to Snow Hill from the London direction where there isn't a through train.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do you mean (for example)

The journey planner for a trip from Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour suggests changing at Barnham.

As a small place Barnham doesn't seem likely intuitively, but because of the way West Coastway services 'cross' there, eg Victoria to Bognor/Portsmouth/Southampton, Littlehampton to Portsmouth/Bognor, Brighton to Portsmouth/Southampton - it has the best interchange possibilities for miles around...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Rose Grove (on the Preston to Colne line via Accrington) is definitely not a station that you'd ever expect there to be a need to interchange at. Only Blackpool South/Preston to/from Colne trains ever call there.

Services from Accrington to West Yorkshire (via Burnley Manchester Road and Hebden Bridge) just run straight through without stopping.

Of the other stations, aren't Fishguard Harbour, Helensburgh Central and Kings Lynn all terminii stations?

 

[swt_passenger]

Hi all,

Just a thought. Are there any surprising stations which online journey planners or paper timetables suggest a change at? The new XC timetable has a note 'change at Durham from 27 May', but I can't find the affected train.

There is only one entry of 'dh' - it's the recommended change for Morpeth - 2117 at Durham northbound. Probably caused by exceeding the interchange time limitation at Newcastle as you suggest - as that's the normal recommended interchange.

(Top tip, right clicking in the pdf brings up a 'find' option, then search for 'dh'.)

Edit: Going by the NRTT this does indeed seem to be because XC and EC are 6 mins apart at Newcastle and the interchange time there is 8 mins... By the way, what happened to the supposed rule that the main operator on a route was supposed to show the other operators in their timetable as well?

 

[philjo]

In the new EC timetable, a lot of weekday southbound journeys from Edinburgh & the north east to Stevenage now specify changing at Newark onto the York/Newark stoppers. (I think it is a 30 minute wait at Newark - presumably same/cross platform.)

 

[bb21]

2: Bootle New Strand, Clapton, Dorchester West, Fishguard Harbour, Rugeley Town

Dorchester West? Seriously?

The number of people I know that make Poole - Maiden Newton journeys would exceed that alone.

Shows you how the one-size-fits-all statistical model can fail miserably.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Don't think it does anymore, but the NRE website did used to suggest a change at Filton Abbey Wood rather than Bristol Temple Meads for a journey from Cardiff Central to Oldfield Park.

 

[cuccir]

Of the other stations, aren't Fishguard Harbour, Helensburgh Central and Kings Lynn all terminii stations?

Yes, I did think this when I posted the list!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The Chiltern site gives changing at Solihull rather than Moor Street to get to Snow Hill from the London direction where there isn't a through train.

I find that surprising because the guards always announce to change at Moor Street. They also announce to change at Moor Street if you want connections to Stourbridge, even if the train they are on terminates at Snow Hill.

Changing at Solihull for Snow Hill when the train terminates at Moor Street is a bad idea anyway. Access from the bay platforms to the down through platform is flat so there is no overbridge to deal with if you want to change trains there (other than the one train a year which might go to Snow Hill via the up through platform) and of course there are many more trains from Moor Street to Snow Hill/Stourbridge than there are from Solihull because Moor Street has the arrivals from the Shirley branch too.

Bad advice on the website in my opinion.

 

[wintonian]

Journey planners sometimes suggest changing at Reading West when coming from Newbury, mid you if you went to reading you'd have to wait for the next one anyway.

I also see them telling me to change at Vauxhall, then Waterloo if going north, it might depend on what you stick in as a via station, can’t remember though.

 

[ushawk]

When needing to go from the South Coast to Carlisle, it suggested changing at Clapham, going to Vauxhall then Victoria line to Euston - surely it would be quicker carrying on to Victoria and the LUL from there ?

 

[John @ home]

When needing to go from the South Coast to Carlisle, it suggested changing at Clapham, going to Vauxhall then Victoria line to Euston - surely it would be quicker carrying on to Victoria and the LUL from there ?

The journey planners may be programmed to avoid changing to the tube at Victoria during escalator replacement.

Victoria
Major escalator refurbishment is taking place at Victoria Underground station until mid January 2012. Your journey will be easier if you can avoid entering the station between 1600 - 2000 on weekdays when: Queues are likely. There will be no ticketing facilities. A one-way system will be in place, including some entrances/exits. You may be asked to wait outside the station to prevent overcrowding. Once inside the station it may take up to 15 minutes to reach your platform. To avoid this disruption start your journey at nearby St. James's Park or Pimlico stations, which are easy to reach on foot or by local bus services from Victoria.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/default.html

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm wondering now how one would change trains at Fishguard Harbour.

Yes, that one had me studying all my archives of rail atlases:roll:

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I regularly book tickets from Chester to Manchester Airport, and the planner always says change in Manchester at Oxford Road rather than Piccadilly. The daft part of this is that you are not at all guaranteed a same-platform change at Oxford Road (heavy luggage, no lift, narrow/steep stairs), while you are at Piccadilly.

On the other hand planners are quite good at suggesting routes/interchanges you would not have thought of.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Indeed. They are often written by people in an office hundreds of miles from where the journey is being made though, and almost always by people with no local knowledge.

Again, sticking to my neck of the woods I used to always see people with bits of paper they had printed off the internet with some strange advice on it. Changing at Hatton for Stratford upon Avon was a very common one. Quite why you would want to spend your time waiting on what is little more than a concrete platform with a bus shelter on it in the middle of nowhere instead of Leamington Spa, which has far superior facilities (toilets, a buffet, a newsagents, a waiting room, staff to answer any queries, a taxi rank outside in case it all goes horribly wrong, even a roof over the platforms!) but people did it all the time. When I was on the West Coast I would see people with print outs telling them to get off of the Euston bound express at Watford and then catch a stopper into Euston from there because the advertised arrival time of the stopper was a minute earlier than the express due to padding of the journey time on the long distance train.
It's quite amazing how many people will refuse to take the advice of somebody who might have 30+ years experience because they have a bit of paper they printed off the internet and they trust that more than they trust another human being!

 

[gnolife]

ive found told to (by asking folks at Piccadilly the day before travel) change at Ashburys and Habrough for Hyde Central to New Clee, that struck me as odd as i was planning for a trip at about mid-day on a Saturday. I was expecting Manchester Piccadilly (or even Romiley if it wanted me on the all-stopper) and Grimsby Town.

 

[swt_passenger]

Did XC ever do anything more technical than just recommending in their printed timetable that changing away from New St (eg at Leamington Spa) could be easier?

Tried a few random XC journeys in the planners and they all still suggested New St...

 

[ushawk]

The journey planners may be programmed to avoid changing to the tube at Victoria during escalator replacement.

Weird as it was about 10 in the morning, but that does make sense during those hours.

 

[Spaceflower]

There's nothing surprising about a change at Chesterfield. I used to regularly change here when travelling from Durham to Nottingham, changing from a NE/SW cross country train onto a Liverpool-Norwich train.

 

[SS4]

Did XC ever do anything more technical than just recommending in their printed timetable that changing away from New St (eg at Leamington Spa) could be easier?

Tried a few random XC journeys in the planners and they all still suggested New St...

Don't think so, either way I wonder how much of the public will change at New St anyway, especially for a service that starts there given the chronic overcrowding on many of XC's service

 

[IanXC]

Another example would be changing from the northbound Yorkshire Coast Line to go towards Malton, York etc on the TPE route. Journey planners will tell you to change at Seamer (a platform with a bus shelter..) rather than staying on to Scarborough (with facilities) however from everything I've seen Guards on both lines have a look at the connection times and confirm on the PA where people should change. From what I can tell if the connection is tight anyway, or if there is late running they advise to change at Seamer, otherwise "stay on to Scarborough"

 

[First class]

Dovey Jn always a strange "interchange" station.

 

[12CSVT]

Dovey Jn always a strange "interchange" station.

It may be a strange interchange now but many years ago that is where you would have had to change for Pwllheli

 

[trickyvegas]

I've changed at Ashburys travelling from Marple to Guide Bridge,

 

[Lampshade]

I've changed at Ashburys travelling from Marple to Guide Bridge,

...why? :?

Surely it would have been easier to just wait for the Rose Hill service :?