Odd sign regarding dispatch at Wolverhampton

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone have any idea why there's a sign at Wolves saying platform staff are available for dispatch? It looks like a fixed sign. Surely that would be a matter of route knowledge?

Thanks.

(Picture attached is a rather poor image of the sign from a Pendolino window)

 

[Bungle965]

Does anyone have any idea why there's a sign at Wolves saying platform staff are available for dispatch? It looks like a fixed sign. Surely that would be a matter of route knowledge?

Thanks.

(Picture attached is a rather poor image of the sign from a Pendolino window)

Station may be short staffed in which case it can be turned to a cross and train staff know that they should self dispatch in these circumstances?

Certainly not the first I have seen of these signs.

 

[Watershed]

There are similar signs at some GA stations, such as Manningtree. It can be slid across to read that there are no platform staff available for dispatch, like an 'occupied' sign on a meeting room or office.

I imagine it's there to give guards authority to self-dispatch, but only if there's no platform staff available. I think that's a reasonable balance between the safety provided by dispatch (bearing in mind there's barely any overlap beyond most of the platform starting signals) and the inconvenience and potential disruption of trains being held due to no dispatchers.

That being said, I'm surprised that a relatively major station like Wolverhampton has such a sign. I also can't say I've ever spotted it before, even though I've been through there thousands of times!

 

[Horizon22]

There are similar signs at some GA stations, such as Manningtree. It can be slid across to read that there are no platform staff available for dispatch, like an 'occupied' sign on a meeting room or office.

I imagine it's there to give guards authority to self-dispatch, but only if there's no platform staff available.

Stratford has one too. It’s for drivers to self-dispatch on certain platforms. I think they flip and then lock a panel depending on the revealed status.

 

[pdeaves]

There are similar signs at some GA stations, such as Manningtree. It can be slid across to read that there are no platform staff available for dispatch, like an 'occupied' sign on a meeting room or office.

A couple of years ago I saw these things at Stowmarket with the 'X' (staff not available) message showing. They looked like they hadn't been changed for a very long time!

 

[O L Leigh]

It’s a better system than the one that exists at Nuneaton. You sit in the platform there while the guard waits to see whether anyone will appear to dispatch the train only to have someone bellow across the station PA telling them to self-dispatch.

 

[Kite159]

Makes sense on GA on the stations which had slam door stock calling until the Flirts arrived, having a dispatcher would assist with ensuring all the doors were closed.

 

[185]

That being said, I'm surprised that a relatively major station like Wolverhampton has such a sign. I also can't say I've ever spotted it before, even though I've been through there thousands of times!

Of the five (ok, six) platforms at Wolves they occasionally run short and so 4, the quietest, is de-staffed. The box will try route trains onto the other three through roads, but occasionally this is not possible hence the sign.

 

[O L Leigh]

Makes sense on GA on the stations which had slam door stock calling until the Flirts arrived, having a dispatcher would assist with ensuring all the doors were closed.

They were also used on DOO routes where staff dispatch was the normal method of working. This was also still used at busy locations even after CCTV dispatch came in, but it may have changed since.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Tiverton Parkway has one in the downside.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It’s a better system than the one that exists at Nuneaton. You sit in the platform there while the guard waits to see whether anyone will appear to dispatch the train only to have someone bellow across the station PA telling them to self-dispatch.

Poor from the guard if they are waiting, Nuneaton is a self dispatch station (for LNWR at least) so, once it's time to go, you go. Rare to be dispatched now due to running with less staff

 

[class68fan]

Does anyone have any idea why there's a sign at Wolves saying platform staff are available for dispatch? It looks like a fixed sign. Surely that would be a matter of route knowledge?

Thanks.

(Picture attached is a rather poor image of the sign from a Pendolino window)

Route knowledge tell the guard or drive that it is possible to either have platform staff or not to help dispatch. Having sign tell them today it is do it yourself dispatch.

 

[LowLevel]

Poor from the guard if they are waiting, Nuneaton is a self dispatch station (for LNWR at least) so, once it's time to go, you go. Rare to be dispatched now due to running with less staff

It isn't for Cross Country though. They only do self dispatch with authority, which usually comes in the form of a control message. Same with us, we don't have any stations where we would just self dispatch of our own accord, it either needs to come from the person in charge or a control message.

Whether they've read their control messages is another matter. As it happens they've sent one out today saying to self dispatch at Nuneaton due to no platform staffing until 1500.

I don't like this move to bugger off if someone isn't immediately obvious. It should be clearly communicated if there is someone available and working or not.

LNWR trains are 8 carriages at Nuneaton and if they're busy and you just clear off, what if the person on the platform isn't there because they're doing a passenger assist you haven't noticed and you just leave with them on board?

I don't like guards being antsy to get away, it tends to lead to incidents. Always check and make sure for me.

 

[40129]

IIRC Nuneaton is self-dispatch only if no staff present for LNWR. The platforms LNWR use are islands - Avanti normally use the fast side and LNWR the slow side. It's therefore possible for staff to be on the platform but not immediately visible to guards of arriving trains.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It isn't for Cross Country though. They only do self dispatch with authority, which usually comes in the form of a control message. Same with us, we don't have any stations where we would just self dispatch of our own accord, it either needs to come from the person in charge or a control message.

Whether they've read their control messages is another matter. As it happens they've sent one out today saying to self dispatch at Nuneaton due to no platform staffing until 1500.

I don't like this move to bugger off if someone isn't immediately obvious. It should be clearly communicated if there is someone available and working or not.

LNWR trains are 8 carriages at Nuneaton and if they're busy and you just clear off, what if the person on the platform isn't there because they're doing a passenger assist you haven't noticed and you just leave with them on board?

I don't like guards being antsy to get away, it tends to lead to incidents. Always check and make sure for me.

I did say for LNWR. At no point have I said not to complete your full duties on the platform, neither did I say I'm antsy to get off. I merely stated you work to time, no problem loosing an extra 10-20 seconds for the platform to clear but that wasn't the suggestion upthread)

Busy platform or not, assists generally are helped onboard after passengers have disembarked so the chance of not seeing platform staff (who wear hi-vis) are extremely slim in my experience.

We would rely on messages from control, but now that our new phones don't have Tyrell on them it's a moot point as we wouldn't see that message.

For the record, I work a mix of 4, 8 and 12 cars and have never carried a member of platform staff working in this way, and have had zero operational incidents in my career (and I plan on keeping it this way).

 

[O L Leigh]

They only do self dispatch with authority, which usually comes in the form of a control message.

… which clearly doesn’t happen every time they’re short of platform staff, hence the need to communicate with the guard via the PA.

 

[LowLevel]

I did say for LNWR. At no point have I said not to complete your full duties on the platform, neither did I say I'm antsy to get off. I merely stated you work to time, no problem loosing an extra 10-20 seconds for the platform to clear but that wasn't the suggestion upthread)

Busy platform or not, assists generally are helped onboard after passengers have disembarked so the chance of not seeing platform staff (who wear hi-vis) are extremely slim in my experience.

We would rely on messages from control, but now that our new phones don't have Tyrell on them it's a moot point as we wouldn't see that message.

For the record, I work a mix of 4, 8 and 12 cars and have never carried a member of platform staff working in this way, and have had zero operational incidents in my career (and I plan on keeping it this way).

I'm not questioning your personal method and standard of working, just the general principle of maybe having a dispatcher, maybe not.

 

[Birmingham]

Once alighted an Avanti service at Nuneaton to hear the TM on their phone to their control as they didn’t have a dispatcher.

 

[CE142]

If you are booked to be despatched you wait. You don't suddenly decide that because it's time to go and nobody is there to despatch you that you can go, the Despatcher could be dealing with something else. If after a few minutes then a phone call to Control to ask why there's nobody there to despatch you, Comtrol may then authorise you to self-despatch.

 

[Hadders]

At Stevenage there's a flap down sign on the P1/2 island which when open says something like this platform is unmanned and that drivers should dispatch and gives reference to a specific rule in the rulebook. It's was probably installed when the line went DOO and the 365s were introduced. The sign isn't in use these days as it's facing the wrong way.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

If you are booked to be despatched you wait. You don't suddenly decide that because it's time to go and nobody is there to despatch you that you can go, the Despatcher could be dealing with something else. If after a few minutes then a phone call to Control to ask why there's nobody there to despatch you, Comtrol may then authorise you to self-despatch.

That's not how LNWR operate. There are mandatory dispatch stations such as New St and Euston (and others), and there are self dispatch stations. Now if I'm at a station that is normally dispatched such as Runcorn and there are no staff then yes a call to control for authority would be the way to go.

According to the WMT route guide as produced by Ops Standards, Nuneaton is a self dispatch station. If there is a dispatcher on the platform, you use them to assist you. If there's no staff on the platform, you self dispatch as you do at all the other non-mandatory dispatch stations.

As an example, yesterday I arrived onto platform 5, the dispatcher was attending to the Avanti service on platform 4. Both trains had the signal and were due to depart. I self dispatched as he dispatched the Avanti, that happens quite often now.

Other TOCs clearly have different ways of working and I can only describe how if works on my TOC but that is how we do it.

 

[CE142]

That's not how LNWR operate. There are mandatory dispatch stations such as New St and Euston (and others), and there are self dispatch stations. Now if I'm at a station that is normally dispatched such as Runcorn and there are no staff then yes a call to control for authority would be the way to go.

According to the WMT route guide as produced by Ops Standards, Nuneaton is a self dispatch station. If there is a dispatcher on the platform, you use them to assist you. If there's no staff on the platform, you self dispatch as you do at all the other non-mandatory dispatch stations.

As an example, yesterday I arrived onto platform 5, the dispatcher was attending to the Avanti service on platform 4. Both trains had the signal and were due to depart. I self dispatched as he dispatched the Avanti, that happens quite often now.

Other TOCs clearly have different ways of working and I can only describe how if works on my TOC but that is how we do it.

On my TOC if you are booked to be despatched then you wait. Until informed otherwise. I know of several occasions where Traincrew have self dispatched because of no Despatcher and have had Managers waiting for them later on wanting to know what they were doing . So now you sit there until informed otherwise.