Odd pricing by EMT

[Merseysider]

I was booking tickets from Manchester to Sheffield next weekend when I noticed something odd.

For EMT advances, it costs more to travel from Stockport on an ex-Man train than it does to buy an advance from Man Picc. Eg the 1634 arrival at SHF (£8 MAN-SHF, £9 SPT-SHF). I also found this was the case on some TPE advances.

Now obviously, I'm not asking if it's permitted to start short on an advance, as that is clearly prohibited, and I'll be travelling from Picc anyway.

But any ideas as to why this oddity exists? And are there any other flows where it costs more (advance tickets only) to travel on less of the route?

 

[higthomas]

This will probably be because whilst the cheaper tier of advance tickets have sold out from Stockport, they have not sold out from Manchester, hence they are cheaper.

 

[Merseysider]

This will probably be because whilst the cheaper tier of advance tickets have sold out from Stockport, they have not sold out from Manchester, hence they are cheaper.

I thought that at first too, but it doesn't make much sense considering literally every EMT advance I looked at was the same. For three hours earlier and later, the situation is the same. Furthermore, as advance fares aren't available between MAN and SPT, I can't see how this would affect it (pax booking MAN-SHF more than pax booking SPT-SHF)?

 

[trentside]

Possibly attempts to reduce demand for trains that are expected to be busy leaving Manchester?

The difference of only £1 does seem strange though.

 

[Paul Kelly]

This will probably be because whilst the cheaper tier of advance tickets have sold out from Stockport, they have not sold out from Manchester, hence they are cheaper.

That's not how advance quotas work! That is a very simplistic model, although I believe it's what Megabus/Megatrain uses. Rail fare advance quotas are more complicated; see the explanation here in the Fares & Ticketing Guide.

In this case it looks like a straightforward pricing error. The advance tier with ticket type 2IG is priced at £8 from Manchester, but £9 from Stockport. It's the exact same ticket type and route code, so will come out of the same quota, hence the identical availability.

 

[yorkie]

This will probably be because whilst the cheaper tier of advance tickets have sold out from Stockport, they have not sold out from Manchester, hence they are cheaper.

Are you sure that's how Advance quotas work?

Edit: beaten to it by Indigo2!

 

[Emyr]

I recently needed to cross the Pennines by rail on Friday PM to meet a friend who was driving to Canterbury for the weekend.

Advanced singles to Sheffield were the same price from Piccadilly, Stockport and Cheadle Hulme.

As Cheadle Hulme is also the PTE boundary, it was cheapest to get this combination:

Peak Single Kearsley - Cheadle Hulme
Peak Return Cheadle Hulme - Chelford
Advance Single Cheadle Hulme - Sheffield

Then I worked out that EMT only takes 15 minutes for Sheffield - Chesterfield, so by spending an extra (iirc) £1.60, I could avoid making him drive in and out of Sheffield during rush hour, and put us an hour ahead.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Are you sure that's how Advance quotas work?

That is a very good explanation.

I know it's been touched on before, but how come cheaper advance tiers can become available after booking's opened? T'missus is heading to Newcastle for Christmas, last week (when bookings opened) the cheapest 1st advance was £78, but she's booked it today for £61. I don't think it's a case of people "releasing" advance reservations, either.

 

[Paul Kelly]

East Coast are known to do that. Personally I think they do it just to try and thwart regular travellers who book as soon as reservations are opened...

 

[Deerfold]

That is a very good explanation.

I know it's been touched on before, but how come cheaper advance tiers can become available after booking's opened? T'missus is heading to Newcastle for Christmas, last week (when bookings opened) the cheapest 1st advance was £78, but she's booked it today for £61. I don't think it's a case of people "releasing" advance reservations, either.

Was that immediately after bookings opened? I've noticed it can take a few hours for all tickets to be loaded in so it can be a bit of a gamble booking a ticket.

 

[yorkie]

That is a very good explanation.

I know it's been touched on before, but how come cheaper advance tiers can become available after booking's opened? T'missus is heading to Newcastle for Christmas, last week (when bookings opened) the cheapest 1st advance was £78, but she's booked it today for £61. I don't think it's a case of people "releasing" advance reservations, either.

I think some operators (in particular EC) sometimes don't release the lowest tiers until they have an idea of how popular the trains are going to be. This was most noticeable during the Olympics.

 

[PeterC]

I think some operators (in particular EC) sometimes don't release the lowest tiers until they have an idea of how popular the trains are going to be. This was most noticeable during the Olympics.

Which sounds far more sensible from a capacity management point of view. Logically I would expect advance ticket prices to be adjusted in either direction as data on bookings already made became available. On the other hand we are talking about the British railway system .......

 

[Starmill]

And are there any other flows where it costs more (advance tickets only) to travel on less of the route?

Yes, lots. CrossCountry are very guilty of this.

 

[RJ]

That's not how advance quotas work! That is a very simplistic model, although I believe it's what Megabus/Megatrain uses. Rail fare advance quotas are more complicated; see the explanation here in the Fares & Ticketing Guide.

In this case it looks like a straightforward pricing error. The advance tier with ticket type 2IG is priced at £8 from Manchester, but £9 from Stockport. It's the exact same ticket type and route code, so will come out of the same quota, hence the identical availability.

Thanks for writing that article - very interesting and glad to see others making use of what I call "TOPS based loopholes" with booking engines to get the fare down.

Once I was looking up fares from London to Manchester, only those for £50+ were showing. I changed the origin station to Catford Bridge and hey presto, much cheaper Advance fares were available! I would have though the Virgin Trains Only and +VWC & Connections routed flows would share the same quota for the Virgin leg of the journey, but apparently this isn't always the case.

 

[yorkie]

TOCs sometimes do blocks on certain origins/destinations. For example a while back it was noticed on busy days that there was a block on the lowest tier of APs to anywhere on the Highland Chieftain except destinations beyond Edinburgh Waverley. So anyone going to the Edinburgh area could have booked to Haymarket for a cheaper ticket!