Odd Journey Option

[rosscbrown]

I'm going back up to Edinburgh tonight and because I'm forgetful I just used the National Rail website to check my options for traveling after 9PM from Lockerbie to Edinburgh. I have two options:

Option 1

Lockerbie (LOC) at 21:21H, arriving Haymarket (HYM) at 22:22H on the Virgin Trains service from Preston Lancs to Edinburgh.

Then depart Haymarket (HYM) at 22:27H, arriving at Edinburgh (EDB) at 22:32H on the First ScotRail service from Bathgate to Edinburgh.

Option 2

Lockerbie (LOC) at 21:21H, arriving Haymarket at 22:33H on the Virgin Trains service from Preston Lancs to Edinburgh.

So my question is, why? According to the timetable I'll only save 1 minute by changing at Haymarket. And why have I never been offered this option before? It seems really odd...

 

[rail-britain]

Looks like a small discrepancy, with the same train arriving into Haymarket at both 22:22 and 22:33
Hence why the options to stay on and go to Edinburgh, or get off and use the next Bathgate service through Haymarket

According to the VT timetable, 22:33 is the arrival time at Edinburgh Waverley, not Haymarket

 

[rosscbrown]

According to the VT timetable, 22:33 is the arrival time at Edinburgh Waverley, not Haymarket

Oh darn, my mistake, in Option 2 I meant Edinburgh Waverley and not Haymarket for the 22:33 arrival time. My bad.

I just don't see why the planner would take me off a direct train and have me change at Haymarket for Edinburgh to save 60 seconds...

 

[me123]

You're saving one minute. In reality, you wouldn't bother changing for that, but the journey planner assumes that that is the best option because it saves you time.

It does the same with Kirkcaldy-Glasgow. There is a direct service in the morning via Linlithgow. However, it advises changing at Linlithgow onto another Glasgow service which arrives 5 minutes earlier than the one you're already on.

EDIT: Also, it's worthwhile noting that Virgin tend to put a lot of slack on the timetables, so assuming Haymarket is "Set Down Only" (which it most probably is), then it would probably arrive in earlier than that Bathgate service anyway.

 

[1D53]

Its actually because the VT journey has recovery time included between Haymarket - Waverley which makes changing a quicker option. The same happens on certain journeys between Manchester Oxford Road and Piccadilly.

Virgin:

Haymarket [HYM] 	  	2222	  		
PRNCSTG 	  	Pass 	2225		
Edinburgh [EDB] 	  	2233

Scotrail

Haymarket [HYM] 	  	2227	2227		
PRNCSTG 	  	Pass 	2230		
Edinburgh [EDB] 	  	2232

 

[rosscbrown]

What is recovery time?

 

[1D53]

Time added into a journey to enable the journey to still arrive on time at its destination even if it becomes delayed en route.

For example the Bathgate is timetabled 5 minutes from Haymarket with the Virgin allowed 11. If the Virgin arrives 6 minutes late at Haymarket due to problems down the line for example it will still make it at its destination on time or with less delay. Pretty much all long distances services have it.

 

[rosscbrown]

Also, I think I'll sit tight on the Virgin Service - chances are I won't have a ticket by the time I reach Edinburgh. I have a feeling that the Scotrail service will come to a platform behind the ticket barrier and I'm not to sure how ticket barriers work without tickets!

 

[1D53]

In theory the Virgin service will arrive first if it arrives first at Haymarket, if it leaves Haymarket on time it should be in theory about 6 early at Waverley.

Here is a demo of how recovery works in reality. In this case this service is 6 minute late passing Berwick and 9 at Dunbar, but the recovery allows it to arrive in Edinburgh only one minute late.

Berwick-upon-Tweed [BWK] 	  	Pass 	1802	|	Pass 	1809	|	6
REST403 	  	Pass 	1805	|	Pass 	1813	|	8
RESTON 	  	Pass 	1809	|	Pass 		|	  
GTHS 	  	Pass 	1814	|	Pass 	1822	|	8
OXWLCO 	  	Pass 	1820	|	Pass 		|	  
Dunbar [DUN] 	  	Pass 	1821	|	Pass 	1831	|	9
Drem [DRM] 	  	Pass 	1832	|	Pass 	1837	|	4
Prestonpans [PST] 	  	Pass 	1842	|	Pass 		|	  
MNKTNHJ 	  	Pass 	1851	|	Pass 	1847	|	-4
PORTOBL 	  	Pass 	1852	|	Pass 	1850	|	-2
CRGNTYJ 	  	Pass 	1854	|	Pass 		|	  
ABHLJN 	  	Pass 	1855	|	Pass 		|	  
Edinburgh [EDB] 	  	1857		|	1858		|	1

 

[rosscbrown]

And, 'PRNCSTG' - what does that mean? Maybe you could point me to a rail glossary or something. I feel like I know nothing here...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Wait, PRNCSTG will be a station abbreviation, right?

 

[me123]

Err... OK. I presume you have to buy on board from Lockerbie?

The Virgin services more often than not use platforms 8,9,11,7,19 and the like without barriers, with most Scotrail services using Platforms 12-18 which are barriered. But there are exceptions to the rule!

If you arrive without a ticket and need to use a barrier, you can buy on the platform (they should appreciate the situation). I've never seen a Virgin ticket check for passengers from Carlisle to the North, so that may be the case.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wait, PRNCSTG will be a station abbreviation, right?

Princes Street Gardens Junction; between Haymarket and Edinburgh. It's the bit where the trains can change onto different tracks, between the two tunnels.

Also; it does not take 11 minutes Haymarket-Edinburgh! You'd be unlucky if it took 5 minutes to be honest.

 

[1D53]

That is a passing point, Princess Street Gardens Junction. It's not a station. It's abbreviated because the full name is too long for the timing system. It means nothing to the average passenger

 

[rosscbrown]

Err... OK. I presume you have to buy on board from Lockerbie?

Yes. But I don't think I can use my railcard on board. So I try to get tickets at the station when I can...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That is a passing point, Princess Street Gardens Junction. It's not a station. It's abbreviated because the full name is too long for the timing system. It means nothing to the average passenger

Where can I lean more about such things. I'd really like to know how they do the delay reports etc

 

[me123]

Yes. But I don't think I can use my railcard on board. So I try to get tickets at the station when I can...

The ticket office will be closed before for a good length of time before you board. So your railcard is perfectly valid.

 

[rosscbrown]

The Virgin service (runing on time) gets into Edinburgh before the First Scotrail service.

For all it is worth, I'm happier to know!

In other news, another free ride, which saves me the bother of complaining about the atrocious service tonight!

 

[1D53]

Yeah, your train was 8 early at Haymarket (set down only) then 14 early at Waverley. Just out of interest the Bathgate service arrived at Waverley 1 minute late!

 

[rosscbrown]

Yeah, your train was 8 early at Haymarket (set down only) then 14 early at Waverley. Just out of interest the Bathgate service arrived at Waverley 1 minute late!

Okay, how do you know that!?

 

[me123]

Okay, how do you know that!?

This is a good resource for someone like you or me, but I think JsT has superior sources that we cannot access...

 

[rosscbrown]

This is a good resource for someone like you or me, but I think JsT has superior sources that we cannot access...

Yes, I've used that before. It was the whole 'finding info on trains from the past' part that I didn't understand. You think JsT is trading on insider information? JsT must be special...

 

[1D53]

I am special.

 

[me123]

Yes, we noticed. Now, put on this nice white jacket and follow me back to the padded room...