Obtrusive Door chimes

[387star]

Door chimes on new and refurbished stock are horribly loud. The chimes on the excellent 377s are at a restful volume. Furthermore on refurbished ex BR stock everytime the Guard closes the doors from a local door the five horribly loud chimes go off twice...
If it's not needed for compliancy why the need? Hard enough napping on trains these days

 

[Geeves]

If you come to Northern land the door opening chimes sound when the doors are closing/closed on some 158s too. It all makes perfect sense to someone, I'm sure you'd love it.

 

[Class360/1]

The door chimes on the 321/9s and 322s were awful. The 321 renatus units aren’t much better

 

[anamyd]

I think the worst are actually some of the door opening beeps on 175s, yes, 20+ year old units. I don't know how it's even possible for such a small sounder to make such overkill, almost hearing damage loud beeps.

 

[physics34]

Horrible, intrusive, bad for people with Autism, make people rush and panic, overkill for people with disabilities.. im sure they could be quieter or less frequent.

 

[Doomotron]

The sounds are as loud as they are for those who are hard of hearing or sight impaired. But ignoring that, a lot of the newer ones are a bit obnoxious. Some are the older ones are nice like the Desiro, Javelin and Electrostar ones, and a personal favourite of mine in the form of the Class 373 door close buzzer (also used on other TGV models).

 

[Strathclyder]

Up here in ScotRail-land, I've never really liked the ones on the refurbished 318s/320s. As someone with Aspergers, they can be a bit too intrusive for my liking, particularly on a bad day. Used to make me wince in all honesty. I understand the reasoning behind them, but it just feels like overkill, particularly when the ones the 334s, 380s & 385s have are far less intrusive and are set at a comfortable enough noise level (IE; not literal ear-splitting screeches).

 

[LUYMun]

The Class 458/5 door chimes are also unnecessarily loud, but that would be the least of my worries given their ride quality...

 

[ComUtoR]

Door chimes on new and refurbished stock are horribly loud.

Do you mean the hustle alarm ?

If it's not needed for compliancy why the need?

I suspect they are needed for compliancy. Do you know what standard they fall under or what the required decibel level is or even if the chimes are required ?

 

[CBlue]

Seem to remember reading that the alarms/chimes for both opening and closing doors are part of PRM compliance hence the retrofitting to older units. Doubt they've been fitted for no reason (or to annoy enthusiasts).

At risk of sounding insensitive, if the noises bother you that much then perhaps a set of well-padded over ear headphones or some earplugs will do you good. Not aspergic myself but I do have very sensitive/delicate hearing, and a good set of headphones are pretty much a normal travelling companion for me regardless of transport mode.

 

[physics34]

Do you mean the hustle alarm ?



I suspect they are needed for compliancy. Do you know what standard they fall under or what the required decibel level is or even if the chimes are required ?

I suspect they go over and above the standard. Why should everyone be subject to a piercingly loud alarms every time doors open or close.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2022 ==

Theres sometimes a ridiculous situation.. at terminus stations when two trains are being boarded on adjecent platforms, lets say platforms 9 and 10 at london victoria, when there is a constant barrage of chimes and alarms because of people boarding then doors closing. Its extremely irritating and not useful at all. Can only cause confusion.

 

[ComUtoR]

I suspect they go over and above the standard. Why should everyone be subject to a piercingly loud alarms every time doors open or close.

Because it isn't "everyone". The level is mostly likely because some people have trouble hearing.

 

[Watershed]

I think the worst are actually some of the door opening beeps on 175s, yes, 20+ year old units. I don't know how it's even possible for such a small sounder to make such overkill, almost hearing damage loud beeps.

They probably just used the cheapest off-the-shelf buzzer they could find! They have an unnecessarily high frequency and volume.

 

[physics34]

Because it isn't "everyone". The level is mostly likely because some people have trouble hearing.

Happy medium needed i think. There are also flashing door buttons for those hard of hearing.

 

[swr444]

The Class 458/5 door chimes are also unnecessarily loud, but that would be the least of my worries given their ride quality...

they make my tinnitus worse when working the train from the (limited) gops in the saloon!

 

[ld0595]

I find some of Scotrail's 318, 320 and 334 closing chimes really ear piercing!

 

[Strathclyder]

I find some of Scotrail's 318, 320 and 334 closing chimes really ear piercing!

The ones the refurbished 318s/320s have can be really ear piercing, same for the opening chime for the 334s (contrary to my previous assertion). The 334s' closing chime isn't nearly as bad though, at least in my experience.

 

[ThePeakNed]

Horrible, intrusive, bad for people with Autism, make people rush and panic, overkill for people with disabilities.. im sure they could be quieter or less frequent.

I think some might say that if you can hear a hustle alarm sounding for a door that’s closing, then don’t rush. Let the door close. You’ve missed the train.

 

[ld0595]

The ones the refurbished 318s/320s have can be really ear piercing, same for the opening chime for the 334s (contrary to my previous assertion). The 334s' closing chime isn't nearly as bad though, at least in my experience.

Ah yep, I meant the opening chime on the 334 as well

 

[fgwrich]

The ones the refurbished 318s/320s have can be really ear piercing, same for the opening chime for the 334s (contrary to my previous assertion). The 334s' closing chime isn't nearly as bad though, at least in my experience.

Have to agree there - I don't know why they've made them so loud!

Also irritating is the toy police car nee naw nee naw on the Hitachi stock. Just why!

 

[Bikeman78]

I suspect they go over and above the standard. Why should everyone be subject to a piercingly loud alarms every time doors open or close.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2022 ==

Theres sometimes a ridiculous situation.. at terminus stations when two trains are being boarded on adjecent platforms, lets say platforms 9 and 10 at london victoria, when there is a constant barrage of chimes and alarms because of people boarding then doors closing. Its extremely irritating and not useful at all. Can only cause confusion.

Same at Liverpool Street or Paddington. It's an endless cycle of door opening / door closing alarms. Has anyone asked a range of disabled people how loud these alarms should be or whether they are useful? My mum is disabled following a head injury and finds sudden loud noises very distressing.

 

[387star]

If you come to Northern land the door opening chimes sound when the doors are closing/closed on some 158s too. It all makes perfect sense to someone, I'm sure you'd love it.

This is what I meant... on modified stock where the Guard uses a local door release the door chimes initially sound when the doors are released. When all doors are closed except the local door the chimes go off yet again. Especially evident on GWR turbos or Southern 313s.

 

[AlexNL]

The requirements are set out in the European Railway Agency's Technical Standards for Interoperability - People with Reduced Mobility (or in short, ERA TSI PRM). This is a lengthy specification about what requirements apply to rolling stock from an accessibility point of view. TSI PRM came in force before Brexit, and because of how such directives work have been translated into requirements for Britain as well.

The specifications allow for the volume to be variable, depending on the noise level in the environment. That way, in a loud environment environment the door noises would increase in volume as well whereas they'd be a bit more toned down in a quiet setting. However that's not a requirement, and many operators choose to use a fixed volume throughout (probably under the motto 'something which isn't there can't break either').

 

[L401CJF]

I have said it in another thread a few years back, but I'll say it again!

I used to live opposite Neston Station, 2 trains per hour, class 150s. I wasn't next door, about 2 minutes walk. Was bizzare when they did the PRM mods on them, the way the sound travels and echos off the houses you could hear the door open/closing sounds from inside the house clearly, even with the doors and windows closed!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I actually really like the 175/180 door opening sound, but my favourite is the MK4 one.

380s (and 333s actually) NEED to be louder. Unlike other Desiros, I never know when the door has unlocked when waiting from the outside as its so quiet, and that’s with very good hearing.

From a room in Premier Inn Charing Cross Glasgow, you can actually hear the door beeps very clearly from the 318s in the neighbouring station.

 

[busestrains]

The class 458 trains have always had one of the loudest door release sounds on the network. I am not sure why they decided on such a loud beep. You can hear the door release sound on these sometimes when you are a couple of minutes walk away from the station.

Strangely the award for the quietest and simplest door release sound goes to the similar Gatwick Express class 460 trains. The door release sound on these was just one very short single beep at a quiet volume. It was the perfect sound in my opinion and just what was needed as it was not over the top or too long or too loud and it should have been used on more trains.

 

[tomuk]

Here is the relevant standard in PRM TSI 2015

Sound Pressure level
To be provided by either:

• an adaptive audible device set at 5 dB LAeq min above ambient up to a max of 70 dB LAeq,T (+ 6/- 0)
• or a non-adaptive device set at 70 dB LAeq,T (+ 6/- 0)
  • Internal measurement on the centre point of the vestibule at a height of 1,5 m above the floor level. (T = total duration of the sound event).
  • External measurement, 1,5 m away from the body side door

 

[Bikeman78]

The requirements are set out in the European Railway Agency's Technical Standards for Interoperability - People with Reduced Mobility (or in short, ERA TSI PRM). This is a lengthy specification about what requirements apply to rolling stock from an accessibility point of view. TSI PRM came in force before Brexit, and because of how such directives work have been translated into requirements for Britain as well.

In Belgium it's notable that the new M7 carriages have door release noise. Nothing else does, even the recently overhauled AM75 and AM80. So it could be another 40 years before everything has it.

Do the new Dutch Sprinters have door release tones? If they do, they can't be very loud because I've never noticed them despite seeing several in Rotterdam recently.

 

[XAM2175]

TSI PRM came in force before Brexit, and because of how such directives work have been translated into requirements for Britain as well.

It should be noted that GB was especially enthusiastic in applying it - virtually every other EU/EEA member state only applied it to new-build or substantially-modified stock, rather than everything.

 

[Bikeman78]

It should be noted that GB was especially enthusiastic in applying it - virtually every other EU/EEA member state only applied it to new-build or substantially-modified stock, rather than everything.

Indeed. I think some rules were introduced so that the rest of Europe could laugh at the UK frantically trying to comply whilst the other countries largely ignored them!