Observations as a conductor doing tickets..

[scotsman]

I'm sure you've checked my ticket on occasion. Some of the guards kind of know me by sight, now. More importantly, so do the smaller team of catering hosts, who are starting to remember my coffee order.

Impressed. I can barely remember my guards' usually.

 

[Bald Rick]

When I worked on a ticket barrier I had a guy ask me to come to one side. I asked what was wrong and he said "I want you to remember me so I don't have to show my pass when I come through" pulling out a silver status pass.

I hope you said "of course Sir, just as soon as you get a Gold Pass"

 

[rdeez]

That's a great idea. Publish the time of the ticket checks and stick to them rigidly so those without tickets know exactly when to head off to the toilets.

I often have headphones in but it is neither frustrating or annoying to me to have to be nudged to get my tickets out. Embarrassing possibly, at most.

Oh, I certainly wasn't advocating that, or suggesting it was done for any reason other than necessity. I'm just easily startled, you see.

 

[Merseysider]

I did hear of a guard who once announced over the PA whilst sat at a major station.........

" Would the passenger who has lost a small dog, please note it has now been found on platforms 4, 5, and 6!!"

Was it in one piece?

I find ticket checks a rare chance to interact with a human being in an otherwise mundane day of sticking tickets through barriers.

Me too! The Northern guards who work my local Manc routes are normally a jolly bunch.

I've travelled XC between Man and Stockport a couple times and the guard's gone through the (sparsely populated) carriage reading out loud the 'from' and 'to' locations on all tickets. A: it's good to know the job's being done thoroughly, B: I find it interesting, finding out where other folks are going, and C: I smirk when there's a punter who's paid top dollar for a through ticket to Bristol.

I travel with headphones in most days but I've only ever had to be nudged once or twice If I'm sitting backwards on the train, I can normally see the guard enter the carriage so I get my ticket out as soon as I see him. If I'm sitting forwards I can normally tell because the people next to/opposite to have started to rummage around for theirs.

 

[GatwickDepress]

While I normaly recognise those that speak to me, sometimes. When checking tickets TBH, its not the face I'm looking at, many passengers do blend into one and unless you look unique, well. By the time you have been to Seaford, had a quick fag, chat to Jenny, talked to some passengers, by the time you get back to Bishopstone, you could just be another passengers boarding.
I've sometimes had passengers board and go, hello again. Hows things. and I'm thinking, who, what, where?. Its nothing personal, but between my last sighting of them, I've seen and interacted with 1,000's of passengers, and unless you have green hair....

Honestly, how dare you conductors not have the gigantic space brain needed to remember every individual person and their features. It's probably that quick fag that's the problem.

I was surprised he didn't remember me as I did basically look like Boris Johnson in a dress at the time! Spoke like him too... DaySaver immediately after a night on the lash isn't advised!

 

[185143]

You'll like this then! I'm on a TPE to Liverpool. A passenger boarded at Warrington and tried to claim harassment as his tickets had already been checked in the station!

 

[BRX]

Something I've never really understood: when the conductor says "anyone who's joined the train at X" then walks through the carriage and only checks the tickets of those who volunteer them.

This seems entirely pointless as anyone who volunteers their ticket obviously is not trying to dodge a fare.

I quite often don't volunteer my ticket in this situation, because I know it's valid, and can't be bothered fishing it out of my pocket, and they aren't going to ask me for it anyway (obviously, on the rare occasion where they do, I am happy to show it).

 

[LowLevel]

Something I've never really understood: when the conductor says "anyone who's joined the train at X" then walks through the carriage and only checks the tickets of those who volunteer them.

This seems entirely pointless as anyone who volunteers their ticket obviously is not trying to dodge a fare.

I quite often don't volunteer my ticket in this situation, because I know it's valid, and can't be bothered fishing it out of my pocket, and they aren't going to ask me for it anyway (obviously, on the rare occasion where they do, I am happy to show it).

Well, if you would like to try remembering exactly which people were already there, go ahead - I'm not doing a full all ticket check after every station

I do occasionally ask people who share pointedly out the window as I approach that I don't think I've seen and I've got quite accurate at extracting cash from them. I have to give the odd apology having checked someone twice (usually issued with some fly away comment about losing my marbles today etc) but it's worth it !

 

[hassaanhc]

Something I've never really understood: when the conductor says "anyone who's joined the train at X" then walks through the carriage and only checks the tickets of those who volunteer them.

This seems entirely pointless as anyone who volunteers their ticket obviously is not trying to dodge a fare.

I quite often don't volunteer my ticket in this situation, because I know it's valid, and can't be bothered fishing it out of my pocket, and they aren't going to ask me for it anyway (obviously, on the rare occasion where they do, I am happy to show it).

Last month I used EMT Grantham>Nottingham and was sitting towards the rear of the leading coach, and the conductor came out of nowhere from behind me. He of course said "Tickets from Grantham please" and barely a second later had walked passed me before I even made an attempt to get it out, so it wasn't checked (an Advance ticket on the correct train )

 

[orpine]

Some thoughts on possible reasons for reluctance:

- Due to the very nature of the job, you're basically implicitly suggesting that the passenger can't be there until they've proven they can be.

- You may be interrupting whatever the passenger.

- You're checking right after a station where there are ticket barriers in operation all the time (I know this won't get Advance's etc).

- The passenger may have had a run-in before with an inspector who didn't think their "valid" ticket was actually valid.

- Some people inherently dislike "authority figures".

Personally I don't volunteer my ticket unless explicitly asked (or the conductor is doing the entire train). I've had a valid ticket be questioned and had to go through the whole fine-process. I won the appeal, so I know I was in the right, but it was a hassle. That said I do remain polite during such checks.

 

[thelongestroad]

- You're checking right after a station where there are ticket barriers in operation all the time

They're a deterrent but in reality they are no alternative to a thorough check on board.

 

[dcsprior]

- You're checking right after a station where there are ticket barriers in operation all the time

They're a deterrent but in reality they are no alternative to a thorough check on board.

Whilst this is correct, I think for a significant number of people it feels like it would if they'd used the self-checkout in a supermarket, and then a member of staff came up to them afterwards and asked to see their receipt.

 

[moggie]

I was amazed recently when travelling on my local LM train to have my ticket checked. My faith in apathy was restored at New St when I along with everyone else sailed through the unmanned barriers as normal.

 

[TheEdge]

I was amazed recently when travelling on my local LM train to have my ticket checked. My faith in apathy was restored at New St when I along with everyone else sailed through the unmanned barriers as normal.

Which is exactly why you cannot trust that just because a station is barriered everyone will have a ticket.

 

[Parallel]

On the line I regularly use, we seem to get three types of guard/ticket inspector. One "Tickets from A, B, C, and D please". Two "Anybody NEED a ticket?". Three *no check*. Obviously it depends if the guard is preparing to leave the train at a depot to swap or if their machine is working or if they have something else to attend to as well.

I have only seen RPI's on this line twice, and both times they've been in pairs. And both times I've seen them penalty faring someone. I don't think they usually bother though as stations either have: barriers, or a ticket office which is often closed after a certain time, or a TVM that only accepts cards, or nothing at all. This probably wouldn't be a popular money spinner if penalty fares were carried out more often, due to the likely high rate of appeals.

 

[muz379]

Whilst this is correct, I think for a significant number of people it feels like it would if they'd used the self-checkout in a supermarket, and then a member of staff came up to them afterwards and asked to see their receipt.

And I wouldn't have an issue with this as I pay for every single item I have taken from the shop .

I was stopped leaving a major supermarket once and accused of stealing something . I was happy for the security guard to have a look in my rucksack to find nothing from the store inside . And then I was on my way in a few minutes .

Had I turned the attitude on and refused to have them look in my bag , which I would be perfectly entitled to do legally the situation would have ended very differently and I would have wasted a load of my time proving a point there was no need to prove .

On the line I regularly use, we seem to get three types of guard/ticket inspector. One "Tickets from A, B, C, and D please". Two "Anybody NEED a ticket?". Three *no check*. Obviously it depends if the guard is preparing to leave the train at a depot to swap or if their machine is working or if they have something else to attend to as well.

I usually alternate between the first two and a full check .

If it is a busy service and I know majority of the passengers are getting off in the next few stops so there is no reasonable prospect of me checking every single ticket I will pass through asking if anybody wishes to buy a ticket . Especially if we are going to a gated station because then people will want a ticket rather than queuing at the station to buy one . So it is good customer service to offer them this and save them queuing . Usually on this service you know the fare dodgers anyway because they are the ones at the platform that are making their way to the right far end of the train behind the driver as they know there is little chance of me getting that far before we reach their destination .

Another time I will do this is on trains where I have 2 units but no corridor connection . Mainly because anybody that doesn't want to pay has boarded the front train anyway so the few people in the back train want to pay .

On quieter trains I will have an opportunity to fully check all tickets so will do this .

Even if I have no ticket machine or the batteries have run out or something I will still walk through the train where I have time so any passengers with questions can ask them etc etc . If we are coming into a terminating point or crew change station again I might not get time to check all tickets before returning to my back cab to put my machine away , change the destination blinds , make announcements etc .

 

[Sleepy]

A little bird told me GA RPIs have had their bonus scheme withdrawn and the reasoning is dft agreement on ticketless travel - if you are not issuing many penalty fares there is not many fare Dodgers travelling !!!

 

[RPI]

Touching on the subject of late Friday/Saturday trains, I generally find that most of the p**sheads on these trains do generally have tickets from earlier on. I must say that even as an RPI, on those trains I generally just sell tickets rather than try to PF unless someone really pees me off, they can be the most enjoyable trains to work if you just generally have a laugh with them and do a groupsave or whatever.

 

[Jonny]

On the line I regularly use, we seem to get three types of guard/ticket inspector. One "Tickets from A, B, C, and D please". Two "Anybody NEED a ticket?". Three *no check*. Obviously it depends if the guard is preparing to leave the train at a depot to swap or if their machine is working or if they have something else to attend to as well.

I have only seen RPI's on this line twice, and both times they've been in pairs. And both times I've seen them penalty faring someone. I don't think they usually bother though as stations either have: barriers, or a ticket office which is often closed after a certain time, or a TVM that only accepts cards, or nothing at all. This probably wouldn't be a popular money spinner if penalty fares were carried out more often, due to the likely high rate of appeals.

I seem to recall reading on this forum that something along the lines of "Anybody need a ticket?" was sometimes the prequel to a sting by several RPIs.

 

[sd0733]

I was amazed recently when travelling on my local LM train to have my ticket checked. My faith in apathy was restored at New St when I along with everyone else sailed through the unmanned barriers as normal.

Going off topic here in answer to your post but Revenue collection on the local routes around Birmingham is terrible in all honesty. From my depot we work a few local New street trains and I always go through them including the 2 late night ones we have and the scale of fare evasion is shocking. I worked one earlier and sold 50 tickets on that part of the shift, I only remember selling 1 return out of those 50 on a route with full ticket offices at every station so not one of them should be boarding without tickets and its very hard to believe that 95% of people are only going one way but there's little you can do but sell them it.
Part of the problem is the 323s having only 2 door control panels, on the 350s with one at every door its quite easy to get through a train.
Maybe one day management will realise the scale of losses throughout the West Midlands and do something but their view is that everyone is going to New Street and so will need a ticket for the 'barrier' which is rarely fully staffed anyway.

Going back to checks in general, When I do tickets I often start at random places through the train and do a full check. Otherwise if you start at a front door the fare dodgers simply walk straight to the back. Sometimes I also end up doing the 'does anyone need a ticket routine' its the only way after a last stop to get through the entire train and at least you're seen by all passengers and give them an opportunity to pay. To a lot of fare dodgers its a game as by their reckoning all that will happen is they'll have to pay so they've nothing to lose so its good to win the game now and again. More really needs to be done to show that this isn't the case but as guards/conductors our hands are tied in what we can give as penalties. I always try and help people out and get to as many people as possible and its all a balancing act between showing good customer service and helping the passengers with tickets and making a stand with regards to fare evasion and we make calls on this all day every day. Some I get wrong, any guard that says they get every call right is either one of a very special kind or lying but I like to think the majority of the time I balance the needs of everybody on that train correctly as well as playing my part in revenue.

 

[Antman]

I find it particularly irritating when I announce " tickets please " from the cab door, and find that a person halfway down the carriage has not heard me due to headphones.

That's it, most passengers are so busy on their electronic devices that it's a pain to have to stop what they're doing and find their ticket.

Something I've never really understood: when the conductor says "anyone who's joined the train at X" then walks through the carriage and only checks the tickets of those who volunteer them.

This seems entirely pointless as anyone who volunteers their ticket obviously is not trying to dodge a fare.

I quite often don't volunteer my ticket in this situation, because I know it's valid, and can't be bothered fishing it out of my pocket, and they aren't going to ask me for it anyway (obviously, on the rare occasion where they do, I am happy to show it).

No I don't normally volunteer my ticket either for the same reason

I tend to think the conductor is just going through the motions anyway

 

[thelongestroad]

muz379, I agree with your approach and that's roughly what I do too. There are some trains where doing full ticket checks is just unpractical and you're better off just offering to sell to those who want to buy them and defer the full check until later or when you have a long stretch between stops.

I will always do a full check where practical, either at the start of the trains journey or if the guard before me hasn't done one.

Can only do my best at the end of the day... It's not worth getting stressed over.

 

[Tom B]

Whilst this is correct, I think for a significant number of people it feels like it would if they'd used the self-checkout in a supermarket, and then a member of staff came up to them afterwards and asked to see their receipt.

Costco do this - they check your receipt against the trolley, although not in fine detail.

Personally, if I expect to have my ticket checked (e.g. on an intercity train leaving KX) I have it ready. If not, I'll have it at the front of my railcard wallet anyway, so extracting it for inspection is a quick and painless process.

 

[drbdrb]

Costco do this - they check your receipt against the trolley, although not in fine detail.

Not when I go in there. I just push the trolley past the long queue of muppets waiting to have their receipts checked.

Not once, out of many, many times, has a member of staff said anything at all when I have done this (although you get some serious glares from the queue).

 

[muz379]

muz379, I agree with your approach and that's roughly what I do too. There are some trains where doing full ticket checks is just unpractical and you're better off just offering to sell to those who want to buy them and defer the full check until later or when you have a long stretch between stops.

I will always do a full check where practical, either at the start of the trains journey or if the guard before me hasn't done one.

Can only do my best at the end of the day... It's not worth getting stressed over.

This is my attitude towards it , I can only do what I can do . And ultimately If I come across someone who is that adamant that they dont want to pay then I am pretty powerless anyway so they will get away with it .

I think some guards take fare evasion personally as if the person who is far evading is making them look a fool . Personally I have come to accept that those that do want to fare evade will get away with it. They know the game and know that guards are ultimately powerless .

 

[TheEdge]

I think some guards take fare evasion personally as if the person who is far evading is making them look a fool . Personally I have come to accept that those that do want to fare evade will get away with it. They know the game and know that guards are ultimately powerless .

That's the attitude I take, day to day fare evasion is a game they we are playing on different sides, if I get someone I win today, if they get away with it they've won today.

Although I think some lose a lot more than they realise. The amount of singles I sell with a niggling suspicion they are probably coming back later in the day makes me think a lot of people think a return costs the same as two singles and don't realise that when the get caught in both directs they are paying an awful lot more than the normal return fare.

 

[Starmill]

Although I think some lose a lot more than they realise. The amount of singles I sell with a niggling suspicion they are probably coming back later in the day makes me think a lot of people think a return costs the same as two singles and don't realise that when the get caught in both directs they are paying an awful lot more than the normal return fare.

Put it down to karma?

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Not when I go in there. I just push the trolley past the long queue of muppets waiting to have their receipts checked.

Not once, out of many, many times, has a member of staff said anything at all when I have done this (although you get some serious glares from the queue).

So anyone who gets their trolley checked to make sure they haven't been over or under-charged is a muppet?

Fine logic there, well done. :roll:

 

[fowler9]

So anyone who gets their trolley checked to make sure they haven't been over or under-charged is a muppet?

Fine logic there, well done. :roll:

To be fair if what the poster says is true and you can just walk past is true then whilst perhaps muppet is a harsh word there is some truth.

I had a very thorough guard on the train this morning from West Allerton to South Parkway (I was very lazy). On leaving West Allerton he did a full ticket check (Apart from the front 142), checked that since I had a zone C1 Trio I wasn't going beyond South Parkway and on passing back through the rearmost 142 checked I wasn't travelling further later in the day. I appreciated it but as always anyone bunking on was on the front 142.

 

[moggie]

Sd0733 - you clearly get my point. As a non TOC employee I'm irritated beyond belief on the number of trains that for whatever reason never get a ticket check - even on the 2 car units I put up with. People as you say very quickly become wise to this.

I think the majority are an honest lot but if they turn up and the local BO is shut (often at various times of the day) and have left it a bit late they'll board the train and seek to pay on board. When no one comes they then have no choice then but to pay at destination. When you get to New St these days you'll be lucky if there's anyone obvious to hand the money to at many times of the day unless ypu wish to sleep easier at night and join the queue at the main BO - who'd probably think you bonkers or even claim the ticket computer says no. So what does a person do? Go in search of aggro or keep walking through? The circumstantial evidence is pretty clear to me.

Why this state of affairs is so I've no idea but I'm aware there's been redundancies so is this the reason. Can't remember the last time I encountered a gaggle of RPI's. New St is ludicrous as one of the three barrier lines might be manned with the other one or two open wide. Not hard to work out which line the evader will head for.

What concerns me most is that future investment must be based on demand / usage. LM clearly have little idea of either at present based on their current abdication on revenue collection. Never mid investment, I can see the service being ripened for cutbacks based on lower revenues. That'll save someone (DfT) some money.