NXEC want the 180s

[Z12XE]

Not seen this mentioned here, but sorry if its already been posted.

National Express EC's reply to the East Coast Capacity Assessment suggests that they are in talks with Angel Trains to lease the Class 180s.

Letter here, word has it that a certain pink and purple operator is not amused as they want them!

 

[gordonthemoron]

Bloody hell! A major improvement in service, new trains to Cleethorpes, Knaesborough, Harrogate, Skipton & Bradford

 

[me123]

Looks like they're going to the ECML, then... Everybody out there seems to want them! Given the problems out in the West, it's surprising to say the least!

Whoever gets them'll certainly be using them well anyway; all the towns such as Cleethorpes, which hasn't received a direct train to London for years, and Harrogate which receives a minimal service to LKX will certainly use the trains.

I do like their new timetable proposals (although I'd have liked more trains to proceed past NCL to EDB and hence more trains past EDB to GLC and ABD in particular), and I hope it all goes ahead, if not with 180s then somthing else (presumably the 90s + MkIIIs that have mysteriously vanished).

I also agree with NXEC that 6tph is possible, but I would imagine that additional loops would need to be created for some of the freight.

 

[Crompton Karl]

Does this mean the end of the Class 90's + MKIII (DVT) options that Nat Ex had been talking about for the Leeds Semi fasts?

Karl

 

[Z12XE]

Supposedly yes, MkIII idea will not be going ahead - which will keep NXEA happy for now as well.

 

[theblackwatch]

Supposedly yes, MkIII idea will not be going ahead - which will keep NXEA happy for now as well.

As mentioned in the letters, it means that NXEC will be operating all its trains at 125mph - the '90+Mk. 3' sets would be more problematic when it comes to timetabling as they would be limited to 110 mph. However, I'm unsure if the acceleration of a 180 from a station would be as good as that of a 90 with a Mk. 3 set.

 

[87015]

Obviously got the gen that skoda's are always to be avoided !!

Not quite sure if a 5-car DMU is a sensible use of ECML paths myself :-? truly resigned to diesels under the wires in this country though...
Presumably not much change out of the 180 fleet to operate an effective hourly service out of the Cross - must need most of the fleet

 

[djw1981]

Supposedly yes, MkIII idea will not be going ahead - which will keep NXEA happy for now as well.

NXEA were not affected, the cl90's were coming from EWS and the mk3's from storage.If anything, NXEA would only lose maintenance staff to train up the NXEC ones in the cl90 in teh short term.

 

[me123]

truly resigned to diesels under the wires in this country though...

To be fair, they are available and currently doing very little (in fact, they'll soon be doing nothing!). It's a good idea to use them. I'm sure that when ICE project comes to fruition, it'll mean the East Coast replaces most if not all of it's current stock (the only possible remaining trains are the 91s IMO) and that's coming about in the not too distant future. I would imagine, also, that the new trains will be as long as, if not longer, than current trains as demand is increasing.

I'm just thinking of the 180s as an "intermediate measure" to get a fuller service going ASAP, and if they work, I don't see the problem. You'd probably waste more money buying a new electric train which wouldn't be in service until perhaps post ICE.

 

[87015]

To be fair, they are available and currently doing very little (in fact, they'll soon be doing nothing!)

So are all those lovely stored EWS Skodas....and 67s...and Mk3s....

I presume the ECML is effectively running "at capacity" with busy trains throughout the day - this give 3 sets of short trains (Hull Voyagers, GC HSTs and now 180s) operating south of Newark - is that really the best use of available capacity?

 

[me123]

I don't know about acceleration, but 125mph running is going to be needed with a high-frequency timetable. I agree that there need to be longer trains, but I'm going to be patient. Perhaps HT could take advantage of displaced NXEC rolling stock when ICE comes to fruition? (Of course, electrification would be required). And of course, GCs Polaris units; there's been noe mention of the length of those trains to my knowledge.

 

[Crompton Karl]

There could be the possibility of services dividing en-route somewhere like Newark (Lincoln) and the other portion continuing north. The other option would be to Run 2 x 5 car units to make 10 coaches.

Karl

 

[Z12XE]

NXEA were not affected, the cl90's were coming from EWS and the mk3's from storage.If anything, NXEA would only lose maintenance staff to train up the NXEC ones in the cl90 in teh short term.

Thats not quite as the presentation from One (as was) to the DfT was written though regarding the subject, as they had guessed what was going to happen should the EWS and their own MkIIIs not materialise properly

 

[theblackwatch]

There could be the possibility of services dividing en-route somewhere like Newark (Lincoln) and the other portion continuing north. The other option would be to Run 2 x 5 car units to make 10 coaches.

Karl

This wouldn't work as the trains are alternate hours to Harrogate and Lincoln on the clockface timetable.

 

[P156KWJ]

would be a good idea if NXEC were to get them - the east towards Cleethorpes has a trashy service from EMT, let alone to London! Then Hull trains should keep hold of their 222s, and with the class 180 introduction, this may release HSTs which could be used on EMT, thus releasing a few 222s to ease the massive overcrowding on Liverpool - Norwich's. Simple

 

[Crompton Karl]

I understand, but it would make sense tho have services splitting to save paths etc.

 

[devon_metro]

I'd love to see them get them and for all of them to fail. They simply are not reliable and 5 cars is not enough capacity. More lousy decisions being made on todays railways!

 

[Respite]

I'd love to see them get them and for all of them to fail. They simply are not reliable and 5 cars is not enough capacity. More lousy decisions being made on todays railways!

At least I won't have to look at them gathering moss in Oxley sidings anymore & thats a good thing. Plus that means that we won't get any, thank god for that!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

so what ones are FGW left with, so far I have 108/109 and 110 only being left but I dont know if thats correct

 

[The Planner]

would be a good idea if NXEC were to get them - the east towards Cleethorpes has a trashy service from EMT, let alone to London! Then Hull trains should keep hold of their 222s, and with the class 180 introduction, this may release HSTs which could be used on EMT, thus releasing a few 222s to ease the massive overcrowding on Liverpool - Norwich's. Simple

222s will be on Liverpool - Norwich sooner than you think. Cant see EMT being too pleased about the Lincoln service seeing as they have got 222s planned from Nottingham in Dec 08.

 

[Nym]

Well,it will be some proper competition!

 

[Donny Dave]

Bloody hell! A major improvement in service, new trains to Cleethorpes, Knaesborough, Harrogate, Skipton & Bradford

Aye, may be improvements for those towns, but intermidiate stations between Doncaster and York will have a far worse service to Scotland.

As things stand, Doncaster will have an hourly service to York, and only slow services to Kings Cross.

So for me to get to Scotland now, means changing twice. Doncaster and York, or Manchester and Preston.

If Grand Central get the go ahead for their services from Cleethorpes, I'll be using them to get to London instead.

 

[Jordy]

I'd love to see them get them and for all of them to fail.

Do you have to have a negative attitude towards everything?

Direct trains from Cleethorpes/Grimsby/Lincoln to London could be great for the (up and coming) local area, i'm sure much the same can be said for the other destinations they intend to serve!

As things stand, Doncaster will have an hourly service to York, and only slow services to Kings Cross.

Doncaster - Peterborough - London
Doncaster - Grantham - Stevenage

Is that really slow? Its considerably faster than some of the current services!

Jordy

 

[Donny Dave]

Both of which will be 1hr 45+ compared to the fastest journey of 1hr 32 currently.

 

[class 313]

222s will be on Liverpool - Norwich sooner than you think. Cant see EMT being too pleased about the Lincoln service seeing as they have got 222s planned from Nottingham in Dec 08.

EMT Are thinking of getting 222s cleared for the line. But I cant see many being used to be honest. Too busy on the Midland Mainline.

 

[Max]

Looks like there is going to be a massive fight for the 180s. How many TOCs have been associated with them now?

 

[1D53]

Everybody has by now been rumoured to have them I think!

 

[class 313]

Everybody has by now been rumoured to have them I think!

As quoted by cj_1985 on WNXX...

Eurostar....
Chiltern....
Northern...
South West Trains...
Southern/Gat Ex...
South Eastern...
TfL/LOROL...
London Midland...

and if you wanna get silly....
WCRC....
Cotswold Rail....

Are company's that haven't showed interest.

 

[me123]

Well, all the mainline operators have anyway. I've heard FSR, ATW, TPE, even XC. Based on the original suggestions, the ECML was one of the last places I'd have thought they'd end up!

 

[Nym]

and EMT, HT