NXEC MK4's

[LilLoaf]

hi everyone,

just a quick question does anyone know when the NXEC are going to repaint the MK4's 225 couches into the new National Express livery.

Also are the uniforms changing becasue i heard a whisper that they might be.

 

[djw1981]

Uniform changes due in early 2009. Examples have been on trial with staff to assess the practicality and staff opinions on the various items. Given that Craigentinny are painting some of the Mk3's, I would imagine that either they will start on the Mk4's after wards, or that Bounds green will start painting them when they are in for heavy maintenance. I don't think there are enough spare to send them to somewhere like Wabtec one rake at a time.

 

[rail-britain]

There will be enough spare Mark 4 coaches from December, that two entire sets could be repainted every week, thus the entire NXEC fleet could be completed ready for May 2009

 

[djw1981]

Even with the additional services which have been hypothesised and allowing (IIRC) 2 rakes each day for maintenance)?

 

[rail-britain]

2 rakes for maintenance, but with careful planning this can effectively be one rake out of service for two days
The other rake can then be held spare and swapped on a daily basis

 

[Pumbaa]

Where's all these spare vehicles come from?

And plus, NEEA have hardly been in a hurry to repaint ex-'One' area, so I'm hardly optimistic that EC will be rebranded in a hurry either.

 

[rail-britain]

32 weeks to repaint just the Mark 4 coaches isn't exactly being quick about it!
Every TOC has some spare capacity within their fleet, although the period for which they are spare varies depending on the nature of the maintenance work being undertaken, which can vary from one day up to three months

 

[djw1981]

But a unit / rake / coach cannot simultaneously be in for maintenance and be being painteD!

 

[LilLoaf]

If you take 2 sets for repainting then there will be no spare sets for passenger service.

NXEC carn't do quick turnarounds especally at the Cross because the seat reservations need to applied throughout the whole train, destination lables attached in doors, cleaned, safety checks, food stocked up, crew changed over, passengers boarded.

Its takes 30mins to turnaround a Leeds
45 mins for a Newcastle
1 hour for a Scotland service.

The 12.00 Inverness takes 1hr 45 mins.

 

[djw1981]

If you take 2 sets for repainting then there will be no spare sets for passenger service.

NXEC carn't do quick turnarounds especally at the Cross because the seat reservations need to applied throughout the whole train, destination lables attached in doors, cleaned, safety checks, food stocked up, crew changed over, passengers boarded.

Its takes 30mins to turnaround a Leeds
45 mins for a Newcastle
1 hour for a Scotland service.

The 12.00 Inverness takes 1hr 45 mins.

That maybe how long they are given, but why can they not all be done in 30 min like the Leeds services? Staff numbers for changeover? There is a factor in having longer layover such that a late arrival does not lead to late departures later in the day.

 

[D9521]

If you take 2 sets for repainting then there will be no spare sets for passenger service.

NXEC carn't do quick turnarounds especally at the Cross because the seat reservations need to applied throughout the whole train, destination lables attached in doors, cleaned, safety checks, food stocked up, crew changed over, passengers boarded.

Its takes 30mins to turnaround a Leeds
45 mins for a Newcastle
1 hour for a Scotland service.

The 12.00 Inverness takes 1hr 45 mins.

So long as they do the safety checks a TOC could get a set out easily and put a trolley service on as a temp action so they can keep their services going, as long as staff inform passengers what the train is then destination labels wouldn't be much of an issue and for the sake of getting a train out then i know ATW would leave the cleaning because it keeps the service running

Thats my opinion though

 

[me123]

In reality, the only place that the destination labels are of any use is King's Cross. At all other stations, the train is either just passing through (it is the only NXEC train at that time usually, sits for less than 5 minutes and is well advertised arrival) or at, for example, Leeds, almost all trains are going back to The Cross. The few trains at Edinburgh and Leeds continuing beyond are about the only other situation.

At Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness, you shouldn't have a problem. At Newcastle, Edinburgh and, I would imagine, Leeds, it'll be announced well in advance with pretty good displays on the platform as well. And Motherwell, York, Alnmouth, Wakefield, Grantham and so on, it really should be pretty obvious. The only place I can see the use is in The Cross, simply because there can be 5 identical trains in at the same time. Even then, I'd think the platform displays would be enough.

 

[EE Type 3]

Maybe they will paint them at the Cross, like when they did that pit-stop rebranding

 

[rail-britain]

If you take 2 sets for repainting then there will be no spare sets for passenger service

NXEC will have three spare sets; one HST and two Mark 4
When their HSTs are being overhauled or repainted this reduces them to nil!

As for the Mark 4 repainting, only one rake will be out of use for two days
The other set will be spare
In effect, in a whole week up to two different sets could be repainted and up to 7 different sets could have been out of service for other maintenane work

However, this excludes removal from service for specific vehicles to receive attention
This often leads to a vehicle from a different set being temporarily substituted in order to keep the set in service

 

[me123]

NXEC will have three spare sets; one HST and two Mark 4
When their HSTs are being overhauled or repainted this reduces them to nil!

Am I right in saying that there is one HST diagram that runs entirely under the wires? (I think it goes EDB-KGX and doe a return to NCL, but I can't be certain). If this is still the case, surely that diagram can be replaced by a 91 set, even temporarily to allow the repaint.

 

[djw1981]

NXEC will have three spare sets; one HST and two Mark 4
When their HSTs are being overhauled or repainted this reduces them to nil!

Sigh, no because they hired an extra set to cover for the refurbs. This set will go to FGW once the NXEC HST refurbs are complete.

 

[rail-britain]

According to the diagrams I have for NXEC, from December 2008, there will still be one operational spare HST Monday to Saturday

 

[Phoenix]

Maybe the whole painting team can stand at the side of the fasts with their paint brushes and the 125mph paint job will be done.

 

[LilLoaf]

Am I right in saying that there is one HST diagram that runs entirely under the wires? (I think it goes EDB-KGX and doe a return to NCL, but I can't be certain). If this is still the case, surely that diagram can be replaced by a 91 set, even temporarily to allow the repaint.

There are several HST diagrams all under wires. Some HST just run from the cross to Leeds and back. There is also the 9.30 Edinburgh- Kings X, makes the 15.30 Kings X - Edinburgh that all wires.

11.30 , 12.30 Kings X - Newcastle making the 15.55, 16.55 return to Kings X and then each doing a Leeds or maybe a ECS to the depot.

As for Kings X turnarounds its very difficult to get a train turnaround in the dedicated time given. The quickest one done is about 30 mins, but even then the catering wasn't available until after passing Stevenage.

 

[GNERman]

I bet that none of you know where the GNER mark 4 sets were painted!
(I do!)

 

[Waverley125]

Wabtec at Doncaster?

Newcastle trains are HSTs occasionally. I don't believe any leeds trains are HSTs, but the Harrogate & Skipton trains are (no wires to harrogate, insufficient voltage on OHL to Skipton). Interestingly, the Skipton service reverses & goes via Wakefield, whereas the Harrogate service goes east along the Hambleton curve. Anyone know why?

 

[GNERman]

No not Doncaster (sorry-good guess)
Didn't know that the Skipton train reverses to Wakefield. Would make sense to go via Hambleton.
Why hasn't this loop been electrified anyway? Wasn't it part of GNER's old plans?

 

[1D53]

The Harrogate only goes via Hambleton on a Saturday, it goes via Wakefield during the week.

The Harrogate goes via Hambleton for route retention purposes.

 

[djw1981]

I bet that none of you know where the GNER mark 4 sets were painted!
(I do!)

Either they, or the HSTs were painted at Rosyth dockyard at some point under GNER management.

 

[GNERman]

Yes the GNER Mk 4 sets were painted at Rosyth Dockyard
The Mk 3 sets were painted at Craigentinny

 

[Bayum]

Wabtec at Doncaster?

Newcastle trains are HSTs occasionally. I don't believe any leeds trains are HSTs, but the Harrogate & Skipton trains are (no wires to harrogate, insufficient voltage on OHL to Skipton). Interestingly, the Skipton service reverses & goes via Wakefield, whereas the Harrogate service goes east along the Hambleton curve. Anyone know why?

http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/Travel-Information/full-timetables/

Weekdays - Northbound Page 2, 6, 9

And that's just weekdays Northbound - bound to be a few for southbound, as well as weekends

 

[Waverley125]

honestly don't know why that is. BTW, is it accurate the NXEC runs a Leeds-Aberdeen service which leaves leeds 7:10? I know the timetable shows it, but I've never seen this service. Presuming it goes direct to York & not via harrogate.

 

[Techniquest]

Yes, first stop York routed via Garforth.

Been such a service for years and years!

 

[1D53]

BTW, is it accurate the NXEC runs a Leeds-Aberdeen service which leaves leeds 7:10? I know the timetable shows it, but I've never seen this service. Presuming it goes direct to York & not via harrogate.

Yes, I've done it on many occasions. Leaves Leeds via Garforth and Church Fenton, to York and then straight up the ECML.

The set runs then down to London at 14:48 before running back on the last London to Leeds which is routing via Pontefract but often runs via Wakefield or via Hambleton.

 

[rail-britain]

is it accurate the NXEC runs a Leeds-Aberdeen service which leaves leeds 7:10?

This service first commenced in the early 1990s, under InterCity East Coast
Prior to that it used to operate as a service from London Kings Cross, departing between 06:00 and 06:30
However once Class 91s commenced full service to Edinburgh and Glasgow, the HST was often late arriving into Kings Cross from Bounds Green, which affected the diagram for the rest of the day, hence the switch

Ironically, during the first week of operation from Leeds it would still arrive at least 30 minutes late into Aberdeen, but operations at Neville Hill had not taken into account the fact that the HST could now refuel in Aberdeen as extra time allowance had been given
The following week this switch took place, with refueling taking place at Aberdeen as soon as possible after arrival
Due to the convenience and saving on reliability this continued to the next timetable