NXEC - 3rd Rate?

[Bayum]

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/East-coast-rail-link-branded.5005776.jp

Thoughts and opinions on the article??

Not using NXEC 1st Class much, I can't really comment on that being poor value. But, everything else has much stayed the same from GNER imho...

 

[Daimler]

If you book well in advance I'd say NXEC first class is incredibly good value for money. He's right though - it isn't as good as it was. Whereas before you got a packet of biscuits every time they went round with the teas (so long as they took the trolley with them!) now they're just laid out on the tables, one each (though I suppose you could just nick them off other empty tables). I'd also say that the new cups aren't as nice, but that's just me being a fusty antiquarian - I always liked having a proper teacup and saucer, now it's a mug, which seems to take away a little of the...erm...stylishness . The guy in the article is probably moaning the reduction in first class restaurant services (which I've never tried, but are supposed to be excellent).

However, I wouldn't be surprised if they're in difficulty - from what I understand they bidded more for the franchise than GNER, which had to hand back the keys because it couldn't pay...hock:

 

[yorkie]

They treat their staff like crap. And once you start doing that, the service is only going to go one way....

 

[whoshotjimmi]

"Lord Adonis insisted that National Express East Coast is meeting its franchise agreement, with the exception of responding to all written customer correspondence within 10 working days."

I think Lord Adonis is missing the point slightly - perhaps why there is a problem to begin with.

IF NXEC are struggling with the franchise agreement, I'm afraid I have no sympathy. They were able to bid on the franchise having watched GNER fail copiously with the demands of the large payments. However, this was due to the collapse of the parent company - suggesting the rail operation was not profitable enough to survive on its' own. NX took it on and are finding, to their cost, exactly that. In my mind, that is just poor business - negotiating a high cost, high risk franchise and then agreeing to it rising year on year and I can't help but feel that NX as a company is not large enough to take on the burden of debt that this franchise has created.

What must not happen is customers suffering a worse service due to the issues. Not only is that highly unfair on regular passengers but it is only going to create more problems for NX. If they are struggling, what they really need right now is for passengers to be getting right behind them and helping them out of their struggles - NOT send their cash flow flocking to an increasing number of rival services.

 

[Metroland]

What rival services? Hull trains and GC are tiny, nobody can get a loan for a car, the coach service takes 3 times as long (run by them) and the air service (from Leeds and Durham) was withdrawn 2 days ago....

No-wonder passenger numbers are holding up well!

 

[whoshotjimmi]

What rival services? Hull trains and GC are tiny, nobody can get a loan for a car, the coach service takes 3 times as long (run by them) and the air service (from Leeds and Durham) was withdrawn 2 days ago....

No-wonder passenger numbers are holding up well!

Metroland - we renew our rivalry!

I was merely hypothesizing. If I had an ailing business I would be doing everything I can to ensure that customers remain loyal and further new customers were sourced. One may as well take a risk as the outlook is not good anyway. As for staff getting treated like crap, I empathise but not sympathise. I get treated like crap at work but that would never mean I would give anything less than 100%, especially when it came to customer service.

As for getting a loan for a car, I was able to get one towards the end of last year and I earn a pittance for a company where jobs are being lost. Got a good rate too!

There are other ways of getting to London from the places NXEC serve. Ok, there are not that many open access services, but, let's be honest, they still exist with potentially a few more into West Yorkshire and let's not forget the EMT departures in the morning. And, even though the Germans have currently deprived Leeds of their flights to London, the likes of Newcastle and Edinburgh still have a healthy schedule. Don't bet on NXEC just yet. I hope very much they sort it all out and are successful but, increasingly, passengers are being given the choice. It is not in NXEC best interests to lose them.

 

[me123]

Remember, however, they run lots of trains to Newcastle and Edinburgh where there's a very big competition from the airlines. And from Aberdeen, most people would rather fly anyway, so you're potentially scaring off the few customers you have for Aberdeen-London.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Remember, however, they run lots of trains to Newcastle and Edinburgh where there's a very big competition from the airlines. And from Aberdeen, most people would rather fly anyway, so you're potentially scaring off the few customers you have for Aberdeen-London.

Oh absolutely I agree 100%. All I'm saying is despite the number of trains, they need to be not putting off customers and potential customers. If demand to travel to London by air were to suddenly skyrocket, I'm sure the likes of Cheesyjet and Ryanair would have something to say about it - especially from the more northern cities like Newcastle and Edinburgh where flying into Luton or Gatwick might not be as much of a hassle as it would from Leeds. All hypothetical like I say, but not impossible.

 

[Tom B]

I wouldn't dream of paying full fare first class prices - I don't think they are worth it. However, when you are booking in advance, I'm happy to pay a couple of extra quid (or less in some cases!).

 

[Metroland]

If I had an ailing business I would be doing everything I can to ensure that customers remain loyal and further new customers were sourced.

Perhaps, but the bottom line is the bottom line. What you may like to do, and what you could afford to do, are two different things. GNER always argued the 'loss making' restaurant cars were essential to attract high paying first class passengers. There comes a time where numbers may drop to such an extent that you have to choice to cut staff numbers or frills else you bankrupt yourself.

Right now, one rival Airline, BA, is burning through £2.7 million worth of cash a day, and not making any money. Most of the others are doing the same. For January, Stansted - Newcastle down 37%, -Edinburgh down 19%, Glasgow down 12%, everything out of Luton withdawn, Gatwick - Edinburgh down 13%, Glasgow down 25%, Newcastle down 4%, City - Edinburgh down 25%, Glasgow down 8%, Heathrow - central Scotland down 6-7%.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/200901/January_2009_Provisional_Domestic_Routes.pdf

Far as I know NXEC passenger number are still growing around 3%, so it seems pretty impressive given the circumstances.

 

[O L Leigh]

This story is just a rehash of the transcription of questions raised in the House of Lords weeks ago and doesn't actually bring NXEC into question very much at all.

Of the two quotes given, Lord Bradshaw's comments indicate concern that the perceived situation on NXEC is a consequence of the Government's franchising process and questions whether this process should be changed. However, Baroness Harris of Richmond is simply worried she won't be getting dinner on her way to and from Westminster. Calling this poor value for money smacks somewhat of the spoiled child, especially when her fares are almost certainly picked up on expenses and paid for by the taxpayer. Under such terms I would have to agree that footing the bill so that Baroness Harris of Richmond can have a jolly up to town on the pretence of serving in the House of Lords is indeed very poor value for money.

This article is neither news nor does it contribute greatly to the debate, I'm afraid.

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

I agree. If the service was that bad, it wouldn't be hitting the growth/targets it is. Really just a lot of politicisation and moaning from the usual suspects. Credit where credit is due I say.

 

[O L Leigh]

On the 10 day response time to customer correspondence, I believe that NXEC are 94% to target on this. The only problem is that they are not quite 100%, and I can hardly see how that is indicative of a failing company.

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

Most of the hot air is just the press and 'enthusiasts' who just delight in running everything down for the sake of it.

Railway debate: Moan, moan, moan, whinge, whinge, nationalise, nationalise, oh bus companies, profits before safety, oh if only the did this, countless 'simple' solutions that are not simple at all, else they would have been done years ago.

For crying out loud put a sock in it, we know its not perfect, it'll never be perfect, all transport is a difficult low profit business, these debates are pure hyperbole.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think most people are hacked off about the reductions in the catering, yes the resturaunts you could argue should go, the ones in the middle of the day on some routes were not well used. But the reduction of catering on the Yorkshire routes goes beyond that, the majority of the trains don't even have the new at-seat offering so you can see why people (in Yorkshire) are so hacked off about it. They are also the ones that choices are coach or MML so they are not likely to desert them, but they are likely to go standard class instead. I would do the same myself on trains that I know are not too busy as I can buy a tea and cookie at the station for less the difference of standard and 1st, the wi-fi is free to everyone. I would now only use first if standard is going to be busy so they have already lost some of my money. (they keep sending me surveys about why as a former time customer I haven't joined escape so at least they are getting feedback - if they ignore it that is upto them)

I have seen it documented that the franchise commitment is to run 87 restuarant services per day and I know Barry Doe has challenged DaFT about them not doing so. (Although I don't know what difference he will make alone)

I certainly think the quality of service has gone down since National Express took over, but I also won't kid myself that in the later years of GNER it was also going down. Would they have done the same themselves we will never know. Losing the resturant provides at least 16 other saleable seats, which probably bring in more revenue even at AP level then the dinners did. As for the mugs, they only thing they seem to do is fall over and cover you with hot drinks when 2 trains pass!

 

[Tom B]

On the 10 day response time to customer correspondence, I believe that NXEC are 94% to target on this. The only problem is that they are not quite 100%, and I can hardly see how that is indicative of a failing company.

I'm slightly skeptical of this claim - last time I wrote into them, it took 3 months for them to reply!

 

[O L Leigh]

Then you must have been among the unfortunate 6%.

Then again, did you at least get an acknowledgement letter within the 10 day period? I know this sounds slightly like moving the goalposts, but in most cases (and not just on the railway) sending a "thank you for your enquiry, we are looking into the matter and will get back to you shortly" letter counts as a substantive reply. Besides, it's not always possible to get a proper answer to a person's enquiry within 10 days, especially if the company need to do a little digging.

O L Leigh

 

[whoshotjimmi]

For crying out loud put a sock in it, we know its not perfect, it'll never be perfect, all transport is a difficult low profit business, these debates are pure hyperbole.

Why can't it be perfect? Why is it so unreasonable to expect perfection? When you go to Starbucks you expect your coffee to be hot and you expect that the more you pay the more you get - something which this thread debates doesn't happen at NXEC (apart from coffee being hot). My point is, you buy your coffee and drink it and it is cold and tasteless so you take it back, get an apology and a new cup of coffee.

Maybe not the best example but what you are saying is that once passengers have paid their money they should expect to be treated like cattle and 1st class customers should sit there with their complimentary cup of tea and a biscuit looking down the train to standard class at people who, despite paying a good portion less, are enjoying all the same benefits - comfortable seat, wifi access and thinking "you know, I paid so much more for my cup of tea than they did". Then you expect passengers to put up with it instead of complain on the basis that it's just the way it is?

It's like saying "put a sock in it, you know McDonalds does not have Michelin stars so don't complain when your food is cold".

Not good enough I'm afraid. If my place of business acted like that we would have no customers left. If the service in 1st class is not up to much, as Failed Unit rightly says, people will stop using it. That is already a loss as far as I can see. More of a loss than giving them a few extra biscuits. Very poor business acumen being shown by NXEC.

I agree with your bottom line comment - there is only so much money one can spend. However, there is only so much money one can afford to lose. Can NXEC afford to lose 1st class business? I don't think so.

 

[O L Leigh]

OK, I think we need a bit of perspective.

This entire situation seems to be about a reduction in the catering for 1st class passengers. That's fair enough. However, I can't see what else it is that NXEC are doing wrong. For the vast majority of passengers who hold standard class tickets it would seem that things are entirely unchanged. The trains have not been shortened, nor has the timetable been thinned out or reliability taken a nosedive. Things do ocassionally go wrong, but these things happened under GNER too. This is hardly treating their passengers like cattle or anything remotely like it.

The point is that the cost of the ticket buys you a journey, and NXEC are providing this. Where things go wrong there is a procedure for claiming compensation. However, the level of catering available on ANY service is neither implied nor guaranteed by the cost of the ticket. This is something that various TOC's provide as an add-on service, particularly on long distance routes, in order to generate a little more revenue and provide their customers with refreshments. However, there is no compulsion on any of the TOC's to provide this. Now, the situation on NXEC is that the catering provision on-board is being changed. Yes this is partly to save a few bob, but also it reflects the type of usage that these facilities generally receive. More people come up to the counter to buy stuff to take back to their seats or wait for the trolley than sit down and eat. In precisely what way is this failing to provide a service? How are you equating this with poor business practice?

Now I know that there is a growing body of thought that NXEC should be appealing to the quality end of the market. Yes, perhaps. However that is not, not ever has been, what rail travel is about. It's about a democratic means of travel for everyone, and that includes the proles like us. Under these financially trying times the TOC's are responding by offering cut-price fares in order that they get bums on seats rather than having people decide not to travel and the trains running half empty because no-one can afford it. If that has been their idea then it appears to be working. Having increasing numbers travelling and seeing a growth in ridership in spite of everything shows that. Quite frankly, that shows good business practice under the one measure that business really care about; sales. And that has to be good for the railway as a whole.

O L Leigh

 

[D841]

I think most people are hacked off about the reductions in the catering, yes the resturaunts you could argue should go, the ones in the middle of the day on some routes were not well used. But the reduction of catering on the Yorkshire routes goes beyond that, the majority of the trains don't even have the new at-seat offering so you can see why people (in Yorkshire) are so hacked off about it.

snip

I have seen it documented that the franchise commitment is to run 87 restuarant services per day and I know Barry Doe has challenged DaFT about them not doing so. (Although I don't know what difference he will make alone)

I certainly think the quality of service has gone down since National Express took over, but I also won't kid myself that in the later years of GNER it was also going down. Would they have done the same themselves we will never know. Losing the resturant provides at least 16 other saleable seats, which probably bring in more revenue even at AP level then the dinners did. As for the mugs, they only thing they seem to do is fall over and cover you with hot drinks when 2 trains pass!

I travelled GNER 1st class between Leeds and KX fairly regularly until a couple of years ago, and often had dinner in the restaurant on the way home. I've only used the restaurant twice since NXEC took over. The first time, the food and wine were definitely not up to GNER standards; the staff were just as professional though.

The 2nd time was a couple of weeks ago. I ignored the 18.33 KX - Leeds because it only had the (pretty poor) at seat offer, and got the 18.30 KX - Newcastle as far as Doncaster. This had a restaurant section with, IIRC, 12 seats. It was offered to both 1st and standard class passengers on leaving KX, and again on leaving Grantham - I don't recall ever experiencing that on GNER. There were only about 8 or so customers, all the same. The quality of the food and wine was definitely back up to GNER standards (but quite a bit more expensive), and the staff were really good, too.

The problem is that the heaviest demand for a 1st class restaurant service in the evening peak was/is on the Leeds trains, and NXEC have cut back the service. This will definitely cost them business, I'm sure.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I am speaking with mind to 1st class. In my view, it appears that first class at NXEC is now no more than standard class with a free cup of tea. That to me is poor service - especially considering the difference in cost. Under BR, the Intercity brand catered largely for the 1st class customer as that is where the money was and still is. I even remember under Intercity, Mk4 set had one more 1st class carriage. Maybe that didn't work perfectly, but that is not my point.

It is seen throughout the business world. The cheaper something is, the lower the profit margin and hence the more customres you require. Ryanair's model is that of fleet standardisation, maximum use of existing aircraft and filling every plane, putting them in a sitution where they can take advantage of extra cost services.

British Airways expect to fill high price 1st class seats where everything is taken care of - no extra services required as everything is thrown in. Even standard class is noticably better than it's low cost rivals.

In a pub the standard lagers make a few pence a pint, the premium lagers make a few more pence a pint.

In my line of business, the low price goods sell very well, but the more expensive goods make us more money. If our more expensive goods suddenly lost quality to the extent that 1st class at NXEC has, they would not be sold and we would lose money. We may very well sell more cheap products, but never enough to cover the money we had lost. We sell our product using a good value message ie you get what you pay for. NXEC cannot claim that 1st class is good value.

My cattle remark was a reaction to a previous post and was not intended to describe the current situation at NXEC.

 

[Failed Unit]

OK, I think we need a bit of perspective.

This entire situation seems to be about a reduction in the catering for 1st class passengers. That's fair enough. However, I can't see what else it is that NXEC are doing wrong. For the vast majority of passengers who hold standard class tickets it would seem that things are entirely unchanged. The trains have not been shortened, nor has the timetable been thinned out or reliability taken a nosedive.

Picking up on this point, I don't think the restuarant is avialable to standard class passengers anymore. I know many people in standard on Newark North Gate services used to use the breakfast as a way of "upgrading" to first. If preventing this from happening is a good / bad thing is a different debate. Can the standard class passengers get the same food over the counter than is on offer for at-seat passengers?

From a personal perspective, the lowing of the service to first class has resulted in me halving my spend with NXEC as I said on my previous post. I also think the food on offer has got worse, espcailly on trains only with buffets - I spend my cash at the station now instead so another loss to National Express. I know I am one person so they won't really care, but if others are doing the same they should be worried as revenue will drop. When travelling standard class in my opinion things are no worse (food offerings apart) but are also no better, the wi-fi is a nice to have but wouldn't pay the extra for 1st class to get this for free alone.

Saying that 80% of passengers travel standard isn't going to help them if 80% of the revenue come from first class passengers (this figures are plucked out of the air for an example it could be 95% passengers 75% revenue for all I know). If I was travelling from York, Doncaster, Retford and Grantham I would certainly be looking at Hull trains or Grand Central to see if they offer a better product for less money in 1st class. As David Franks said open access operators will help them keep standards high so we will see if they are sending thier first class passengers directly to the competition, a u-turn will follow quickly from National Express

I must admit I was very nervous when they announced that national express had won the franchise having suffered for 10 years with Central trains. It was the operator I wanted least to get the franchise based on my Central experience. I thought I would sit back and see if it was just exceptionally poor mananagement at Central which made so hard to travel with them. I will hold my breath a little longer before going for blood and this is coming from a passenger who has a lot to gain that almost certainly not have been offered by other operators. (ie a direct service from Market Rasen - Lincoln)

It could also be worse, it sounds like Stagecoach's cutbacks on MML are turning this route into something like Waterloo - Weymouth

 

[Metroland]

Why can't it be perfect? Why is it so unreasonable to expect perfection? When you go to Starbucks you expect your coffee to be hot and you expect that the more you pay the more you get - something which this thread debates doesn't happen at NXEC (apart from coffee being hot). My point is, you buy your coffee and drink it and it is cold and tasteless so you take it back, get an apology and a new cup of coffee.

Maybe not the best example but what you are saying is that once passengers have paid their money they should expect to be treated like cattle and 1st class customers should sit there with their complimentary cup of tea and a biscuit looking down the train to standard class at people who, despite paying a good portion less, are enjoying all the same benefits - comfortable seat, wifi access and thinking "you know, I paid so much more for my cup of tea than they did". Then you expect passengers to put up with it instead of complain on the basis that it's just the way it is?

It's like saying "put a sock in it, you know McDonalds does not have Michelin stars so don't complain when your food is cold".

Not good enough I'm afraid. If my place of business acted like that we would have no customers left. If the service in 1st class is not up to much, as Failed Unit rightly says, people will stop using it. That is already a loss as far as I can see. More of a loss than giving them a few extra biscuits. Very poor business acumen being shown by NXEC.

I agree with your bottom line comment - there is only so much money one can spend. However, there is only so much money one can afford to lose. Can NXEC afford to lose 1st class business? I don't think so.

Its another hyperbole argument. No company or person is perfect, therefore I would argue its unreasonable to expect it 100% of the time. Especially from transport systems which run 95% okay at best. The point is, as an enthusiast you ought to know why it can't be 100%: Weather, suicides, bridge bashes, old stock, cheapo OHL, price competition. You are the second person I have seen making comparisons between the running of coffee shops and capital intensive, intensely worked, all weather transport systems. If you really think running a coffee shop is like running a railway, you are in for a shock.

While one should always aim to do ones best (I think we all know that) I don't see the evidence that is often levelled that things are so bad (else we wouldn't have seen the growth) it warrants the volume of moaning that goes on, especially from certain 'enthusiasts'. Especially the ones, for ideological reasons like putting on their rose coloured glasses and saying it was so much better in BR days - I was there, trust me, it wasn't. Essentially, the Roger Fords and Christian Wolmars of the world. There is things wrong, I don't like the livery much either, I'm sure some of the staff are rude, and its not all quite as cheap as we'd like.

This is about the 5th speculative National Express thread I've seen in so many weeks. Almost all are essentially hot air, the same old arguments over and over again. Its boring and tiring, and if carries on I won't bother to post at all, especially as the people who often seem to have all the answers just about know how to get on a train let alone run a railway. Much of it is Daily mail level, not knowledgeable enthusiast level.

 

[First ScotRail]

The new mugs on NX tend to be breaking alot, infact all the crockery they have purchased is cracking, but especially the mugs. They are dunson as well, same design as VT (but they personalise theres and also a fancy design).

Also the plate/dish thing with salt/pepper/sauce in it I find is often dirty.

 

[Failed Unit]

While one should always aim to do ones best (I think we all know that) I don't see the evidence that is often levelled that things are so bad, it warrants the volume of moaning that goes on, especially from certain 'enthusiasts'. Especially the ones, for ideological reasons like putting on their rose coloured glasses and saying it was so much better in BR days. The Roger Fords and Christian Wolmars of the world. There is things wrong, I don't like the livery much either. But do we have to repeat stuff over and over again, without little reference to fact or reality?

That is a sweeping statement, I have seen more people provide a good arguement to why things were much better under BR then they are now, to why things are better under the privatised system.

The main one is that the system was ran as a network that worked together, not as a series of franchises only interested in their own area and not taking into account that people may want to travel between different franchise area. ie connections were planned between branch and mainlines and they were held! GNER (and national express to some extent) were only interested in passengers from Lincolnshire if they drove to Newark/Grantham, BR wanted passengers to travel from their local station!

The other one is that that the network is too obsessed with PPM, again we have lost direct trains from Lincoln - Birmingham for this reason, who cares that people drive now because the trains are still late and fail to connect at least the PPM has improved as now only 1/4 trains is late rather than 1/2 - still 1 train is late it is just we have massage the figure to make it look better! If PPM is going to be the be all and end all at least measure it at every station a train calls at! BTW PPM was always about the 90% mark on all franchises under BR even with held connections and before the slowing down of certain routes!

Yes both of these things could be fixed, but they exist and the didn't under BR so I certainly count myself as someone that thinks thing were much better under BR to the average customer, and will back them up. But I guess that is for a different thread.

Oh and those mugs certainly are a major cock-up, but they are good at covering you with tea / coffee on HST's when they pass other trains, the base is too thin so they just fall over. I guess that is why they are cracking!

 

[Metroland]

If I remember the main complaint about BR was it was a huge unionised monopoly, filled with lazy, under worked workers that couldn't care less and certainly didn't care about commercial realities.

Perhaps there is an element of truth in that too, but it strikes me the mantra is now (because its broken up) about the fragmented nature and competition, and complain even more about the overpaid bosses.

As far as I can see the only thing that is worse, is the costs. But much of that is probably because to the extent BR rationalised everything and sweated the assets and today's H&S hysteria. But people (the tabloids?) said safety at any cost, because it sounds good. They argued the private companies put profit before safety (another good newspaper seller). It strikes me, once the bill comes in, they don't like that either. I'm not actually sure who they thought was going to pay!

 

[John @ home]

I don't think the restuarant is avialable to standard class passengers anymore.

The position regarding access to the remaining restaurant services by Standard ticket holders does not appear to be well known, even by NXEC staff.

Late in January, my friend and I travelled on the 1800 Kings Cross to York and asked at the Cafe Bar whether the restaurant was available to Standard ticket holders. We were told that it was not.

Two minutes later it was announced on the tannoy that both First Class and Standard ticket holders were invited to dine, so we went to the restaurant and had a very pleasant 3-course meal, full bottle of Sauvignon blanc and coffee for £64 for 2.

The position appears to be that First Class ticket holders are invited to dine then, if seats remain, an announcement is made inviting all passengers. This is exactly what was done by InterCity prior to privatisation. What goes around comes around!

Can the standard class passengers get the same food over the counter than is on offer for at-seat passengers?

No. The First Class At Seat Dining offer is here:
http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/On-Board-Our-Trains/Food1/At-seat-dining-2/
The Cafe Bar menu available to Standard ticket holders is here:
http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/On-Board-Our-Trains/Food1/CafeBar/CafeBar-Menu/
They are very different.

For completeness, the Restaurant Menu is here:
http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com/On-Board-Our-Trains/Food1/Restaurant/

John

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Its another hyperbole argument. No company or person is perfect, therefore I would argue its unreasonable to expect it 100% of the time. Especially from transport systems which run 95% okay at best. The point is, as an enthusiast you ought to know why it can't be 100%: Weather, suicides, bridge bashes, old stock, cheapo OHL, price competition....

A number of things you speak of there are totally outside the control of the railway and I think people understand that. I am referring entirely to the service that is on offer to the customer. It is not unreasonable to be able to get off a train after every journey and think "that was excellent". Especially if you have paid a good deal more for it.

.....This is about the 5th speculative National Express thread I've seen in so many weeks. Almost all are essentially hot air, the same old arguments over and over again. Its boring and tiring, and if carries on I won't bother to post at all, especially as the people who often seem to have all the answers just about know how to get on a train let alone run a railway. Much of it is Daily mail level, not knowledgeable enthusiast level......

It's like the news - you only hear the bad news. As it is, this thread was set up following a house of lords debate and posters were asked for their opinions, which everyone has provided. This thread has had some very informed opinions from a wide range of viewpoints - that of those who agree and that of those who disagree, those of drivers, those of passengers who have had good experiences with the company and those who have had bad experiences with the company. Personally, I have nearly 10 years of customer service experience and know exactly what my customers expect and what I should expect if they do not receive said services. If someone doesn't agree with your view on it, it does not make them wrong - I agree it doesn't make them right but that is the beauty of being asked for your opinion, they will differ. Everyone will have opinions and ideas on what is right and wrong and, though some can be daft, they should be respected and debated accordingly. If you find it boring to post, then fine. Personally, I like to read your opinions on issues as I find them well thought out and entertaining. If you are looking to find what is right with NXEC, open up a new thread and ask the people! Let them speak!

....I don't think anyone objects to well considered argument or debate, but its strikes me much of it is to highlight everything that is wrong, rather anything that is right. Life never improved by constant bitching, especially over things that either don't exist, aren't possible or are blown way out of proportion.

At the end of the day, this thread was about something that is considered to be wrong at NXEC. If a passenger is happy they won't complain, if they are unhappy, a complaint is possible. Whenever there is a complaint, there is always the potential for it to be blown out of proportion, as my experiences of the last week at work testify!

 

[Failed Unit]

If I remember the main complaint about BR was it was a huge unionised monopoly, filled with lazy, under worked workers that couldn't care less and certainly didn't care about commercial realities.

I wouldn't dare comment

Perhaps there is an element of truth in that too, but it strikes me the mantra is now because its broken up people equally moan about the fragmented nature and competition, and complain even more about the overpaid bosses.

Yep people are never happy, what competition unless you mean Grand Piano, Hull trains and WSRC - not much really.

As far as I can see the only thing that is worse, is the costs. But much of that is probably because to the extent BR rationalised everything and sweated the assets and today's H&S hysteria. But people said (well the tabloids) safety at any cost, because it sounds good, and argued the private companies put profit before safety (another good newspaper seller), its strikes me, once the bill comes in, they don't like that either. I'm not actually sure who they thought was going to pay, and now equally moan about the prices.

Don't you think the way services are planned is not worse then. You get a mainline train arriving at 1000 and the local connection leaving at 1006 at a station with a 7 minute connection? This would never have happened under BR, the train would have been planned to leave at 1007.
Now you have got the train 7 minute valid connection, ie 1000 mainline, and 1007 local. The mainline train arrives at 1008, the local one left at 1007. Under BR the local train would have waited that 2 minutes and passengers would be relaxed knowing this.
To me both of these are example of why things are much worse! Yes they can be fixed and it is the system that is wrong.

It would be interesting to know if we had know regulation what level the fares would be at now, or even if we would be able to buy walk on fares on inter-city routes (local routes would always have them). I guess that we will never know.

 

[Metroland]

I don't disagree with anything you have said about customer service at all, whoeshotjimmi. As for opinions, well, people have a right to them. All I'm saying, as enthusiasts, please lets try and move beyond the Daily Mail level, that's the simplistic straw man arguments designed to draw attention rather than offer considered solutions and lucid understanding of the realities. And try and highlight some of the good stuff, rather than banging the drum on the bad - its kinda wearing.

Failed Unit: I think the pre-book advance fares phenomenon is directly because of airline and coach competition/deregulation. I think it would have happened anyway as yield management is better at getting bums on seats. As for holding trains, well you on rural routes with long single line sections, holding trains tends to clobber other services than those passengers complain. There are good reasons sometimes for holding trains, and often they are still held if if doesn't delay anything else. My Aunt used to think Totnes station staff were wonderful holding trains for her when she was late in BR days- I'll speculate the other passengers didn't agree, especially when they missed their connections!