NXEA First Class

[All Line Rover]

Following on from my recent trip to Norwich, I can confidently say that NXEA has THE WORST First Class offering of any InterCity operator in Britain.

In my opinion, their London-Norwich HST run service is an InterCity service, so I put this service into the same category as: ATW (Premier service), EC, EMT, FGW, GC, HT, SR, TPE, VT and XC.

I would class c2c, FCC, LM, SWT, SE and SN as operating commuter services.

Anyway, here are the main points. They’re all bad, as there weren’t any good points:

• The interior is terrible – absolutely no refurbishment, the seats are small and low, the seat reclining mechanism is broken (on all of the seats!) the armrests are too low are don’t raise so you have to clamber over them to get out of your seat, there are no power sockets, the curtain blinds are terribly fiddly, the overhead lights don't work, the intercom is so terrible that you can’t understand what the guard is saying, many of the doors separating the carriages don’t work, the toilets are very old and still require you to push a pedal to get water from the tap, the toilets have a flush handle which you have to push down countless times to get the toilet to flush, the toilets use water (not suction) so they can get clogged, etc.
  
• I have heard that the HST’s are former Virgin stock. Is this correct? If so, it shows that there has been absolutely no investment in new trains in this area of England. Why would Virgin order new trains if these HST’s were fine?
  
• For some reason the train’s brakes were poor (I assume this happens across the fleet), so that the train shuddered every time it slowed down, and did a sudden jolt when it stopped.
  
• There was no catering service whatsoever. Not even a cup of tea was provided! I have never been in First Class on an InterCity operator and had absolutely nothing. Do NXEA have any First Class staff?
  
• The First Class lounge at Liverpool Street was pathetic, tiny, had no ticket checks on entry and the drinks from the machine were.

I can now see why my Advance ticket was so cheap. I thought it was a bargain when I booked it!

I will definitely be avoiding NXEA on my ALR. And although some people have mixed opinions about this, personally I am very glad that National Express lost the East Coast franchise. They should stick to running coaches (which I don’t like anyway), and perhaps c2c.

By the way, the pictures of East Coast’s new First Class food offering look very nice: http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/east-coast-unveils-first-class-food-revamp

In summary, I would like to say DON’T TRAVEL FIRST CLASS ON NXEA (unless you get a First Advance ticket which costs only a few quid more than a Standard Advance), and have a few questions for people who know more about NXEA than me:

• Do NXEA have any First Class staff?
  
• Do they provide any catering in First Class?
  
• Is their rolling stock really former Virgin stock?
  
• Why is their rolling stock so poor, and why has it received no investment?
  
• Why did they bother providing a First Class lounge at Liverpool Street considering its so rubbish?
  
• Do you expect the new (temporary) franchise operator to provide any investment in improving the rolling stock and First Class service, or will it be another few years before any improvement can be seen?

First_Class (name should be changed soon, unless “First Class” decides to change their name)

 

[lm321412]

Under Anglia and ONE, the Liverpool St - Norwich service was renowned for being an excellent First Class service with an absolutely smashing restaurant (i'm sure some group members can vouch for me on this).

NatEx (in good old NatEx style) decided to completely destroy this along with removing ONE from the rails with their rebranding scheme. Shame...

I quite like the Mark 3 coaches that operate from LST - Norwich, I find them perfect and the seating very nice and potentially even better if they were to be treated with new seat covers. (gets his coat)

They have recently introduced a breakfast Menu (0740 Norwich - LST, 1000 return) but by no means is it free and by no means the silver service it used to be in its prime (Anglia/ONE days)...


I can understand National Express not actually investing in anything since they practically knew that they were not going to get a franchise extension (which they would of easily achieved in 2007 before the rebrand) and they have had a good idea that 2012 was gonna be their end for East Anglia since 2009!

Trust me, if something botches up out of Liverpool Street, that lounge is much nicer than being stood on the platform, even if its a little bit 'cosy'. A free coffee from that machine is ok and better than paying for an equivalent on the train (which should also be free, but in true NX fashion)

The only real franchise commitment the new Greater Anglia franchise has like that is to refresh all 17x Class 321/4 trains that have recently moved from London Midland. I am quite pleased about this personally being a Cl321 nutter!

I would like to see the new franchisee to reintroduce some restaurant trains (I quite liked what NatEx tried out around 2 years ago now and was fairly good value for money). Ah well...

 

[Ivo]

First off, I would suggest splitting SWT into both types. I wouldn't call Exeter to Waterloo a commuter service personally. Ditto LM. And Southern = SN.

But anyway, if you think their Norwich offering is poor, you should try one of their 321s... (definitely "commuter")!

 

[MCR247]

They are Mark 3s not HSTs btw

 

[Mojo]

It was National Express (when they called themselves 'one') who introduced the highly-praised catering when they took over the franchise.

I don't think First class on the Liv St - Norwich route was ever that good, so it's not a NatEx thing. I don't recall Anglia giving out freebies either.

 

[Ivo]

Do they still lack power sockets?

 

[All Line Rover]

They are Mark 3s not HSTs btw

Sorry, I'm not good with acronyms! Is any part of the train the HST? The actual passenger carraiges are such a contrast to East Coast, though!


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do they still lack power sockets?

YES! That's another thing that annoyed me, now that you remind me!

 

[F Great Eastern]

I actually book First Class whenever I travel with NXEA because it's normally only a couple of quid more, and if you think First class is horrible you should see what standard class is like with it's horrible cream layout. First class is almost luxury compared to this, despite it's obvious flaws.

The terrible thing is the amount of people who I've seen ask "When is the refurbishment taking place" on these is unbelievable, literally all what was done to them since they came back from Virgin is they changed the seat rag, repainted them, put red fittings onto the luggage racks and changed some walls to be blue. That is absloutely it, in the lowest budget way possible. Post refurbishment it looks worse than any MK3 interior going around for the last 5-10 years that hasn't been refurbished.

First Class is indeed shocking, offset a little by the fact you now get free Wifi, which is paid for in standard class, but this is the only real benefit. In addition most of the seats recline function is broken, it either is already reclined all the way back or not at all and cannot be moved, whilst most of the lamps do not work either, along with the mentioned problems with PA which happens throughout both standard and normal class. The first class lounge is indeed crap and when I went in there before the hot drink sachets and water was broken.

This however, is not something that is limited to the MK3's. Pretty much all of the stock on the franchise is in a pretty bad needs of some TLC. My favourite first class seating has to be some of the 317's on the Stansted Express, with first class in the middle of a standard class carridge. It's marked as first class, but it is EXACTLY the same as standard class, apart from the fact it has an arm on the side of the seat. That is it, same seat, same spacing, in the same coach, I couldn't believe it. Fortunately I was not stupid enough to pay for first class, but another passenger unfortunately did.

National Express have invested nothing since day one of the franchise, they clearly overbid and they still haven't even managed to replaced the signs at many of the stations on the network, 8 years later, but curiously some of the signs at the same stations have been rebranded about 3-4 times over and over again whilst others have not been given any TLC at all. We also still have a hilarious mix of liveries going around, bugs in the Stansted Express pre-ordering ticket system which they knew about 8 years ago but have not bothered to fix and

The standard of customer service at stations is terrible, on a Sunday at 8pm during major engineering works a message was read by a member of NX staff at the station over and over again for us to contact their telephone line or visit their website to find out information as no staff were available. Now I know it's a Sunday, but basically telling your passengers to **** off because no staff were there is ridiculous, it's central London for Christ sake, why are there not staff there, all the message does is basically put two fingers up to the customer and tell them that NX couldn't care less.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Sorry, I'm not good with acronyms! Is any part of the train the HST?

No, an HST is a train formed of Mk 3 stock with a class 43 on each end. What is used on the Norwich run are locomotive hauled Mk 3s; there are some technical differences - mainly in the electricals - between the two types of Mk 3. Quite a few carriages have been converted between the two types, however.

But it's still only an HST if it has 43s powering it.

 

[thewolf]

Although I wasn't in First Class, I have to agree on some points there from when I travelled up to Norfolk (and back) a few weeks ago.

I expected them to be refurbished to a decent standard - as every other operator I've travelled on recently has - Stepped into the carriage and it looked just as I remember them being under Virgin a good 10 or so years ago, plus that 10 years worth of aging.

Seemed terribly clunky along the way, the age old problem of the door at the end of the carriage not closing provided a rather noisy (and cold) ride home which was far from ideal after being awake for 14 hours and having walked a good 10-12 miles or so.


Ah well, next time I go I'm there for a few days so can avoid them (and a 5 am start) and go via XC and EMT.

 

[87031]

they get all the passed down stock from the WCML, first they got 86s and the Mk2s now they have Skodas and Mk3s.....they will probably get the first batch of Pendolinos when they get shabby and the 11 coach ones take over the WCML. National express are a coach company so never expect big investment with them anyway. The 87s should of been used in Anglia instead of the now unreliable 90s.

 

[313103]

What do you expect from a company like National Express, as an employee of theirs for 10 years until they finally lost the franchise, they did virtually next to nothing save for a refirb to the 313s that you couldnt tell the diffeence between a 313/0 and a 313/1 expect the companys id was on it. Everything about the company was save here, there and everywhere. They even use to advertise the fact that they paid there staff the lowest in London and the second lowest in the whole industry.

No doubt they are running the GE services the same way, i know i see there trains at Stratford everyday. To still have class 321s in the former colours of First Great eastern and Silverlink running says what really needs to be said about the company. I think they do not like the fact that Norwich is a Inter City route for two reasons 1 for them it would be better to use a multiple unit (i can see it the punters turning up at Norwich for the 07.15 to Liverpool Street to be greated by a filthy graffiti covered class 315) and by having unit operation they would dispence with the use of a Guard.

 

[Nym]

If they scrapped off the LHCS then Chiltern would no dowbt refurbish and put it on their lines, or please please please, can we have some up here?

 

[ChrisCooper]

Remember though this was the same National Express that ran the god like (to most enthusiasts) MML and that the Mk3s on the GEML were refurbished to similar standards to MMLs final refurbishment on the MML which I have rarely heard complaints about. They were refurbished before the FGW HSTs (which are far from universally popular) or the GNER Mallard refurbishments on their HSTs.

 

[Oliver]

It was National Express (when they called themselves 'one') who introduced the highly-praised catering when they took over the franchise.

I don't think First class on the Liv St - Norwich route was ever that good, so it's not a NatEx thing. I don't recall Anglia giving out freebies either.

The catering was excellent when Anglia ran the route, though it wasn't free. They were the best of the first generation franchises, doing a great job on a shoe-string.

 

[lm321412]

They are not going to fix the broken seat recliners or broken table lamps anymore, the franchise will have no investment what so ever and has not done for the past 2 years, especially since NXEC has gone (because they knew Anglia was going too).

A lot of the VT overhead lamps do not work and have not worked for a few years, I think most TOCs are far too lazy to look for these defects and replace the lighting where necessary.


Yes, Angia and ONE did not give freebies, BUT the Restaurant service was second-to-none.

 

[dk1]

On NXEA it is quite unusual to not have at least a trolley service if catering was advertised. Most if not all sets now convey a catering vehicle. Only under service disruption does a no show occur & then they do try to get a member of staff to board en-route if that is possible. As there are only catering staff based at Norwich services such as the 06.00/06.25/07.00 down & 22.00 up are not advertised as having any catering provision anyway.

 

[bengolding]

Whilst NXEA's lack of any First Class service is poor, that shouldn't be any reason to tell others to stop using it. Any freebies are complimentary after al, and the First Class advance fares are very reasonablel. I do recall the Anglia days where the service was fantastic, especially on the Anglia Crosslink which I used often.

 

[lm321412]

Whilst NXEA's lack of any First Class service is poor, that shouldn't be any reason to tell others to stop using it. Any freebies are complimentary after al, and the First Class advance fares are very reasonablel. I do recall the Anglia days where the service was fantastic, especially on the Anglia Crosslink which I used often.

I totally agree with this post.

NXEAs 1st Fares are excellent, even if all you do get is a packet Coffee out of the machine at Liverpool St!

 

[Bald Rick]

In summary, I would like to say DON’T TRAVEL FIRST CLASS ON NXEA, and have a few questions for people who know more about NXEA than me:

• Do NXEA have any First Class staff?
  
• Do they provide any catering in First Class?
  
• Is their rolling stock really former Virgin stock?
  
• Why is their rolling stock so poor, and why has it received no investment?
  
• Why did they bother providing a First Class lounge at Liverpool Street considering its so rubbish?
  
• Do you expect the new (temporary) franchise operator to provide any investment in improving the rolling stock and First Class service, or will it be another few years before any improvement can be seen?

First_Class (name should be changed soon, unless “First Class” decides to change their name)

To answer the questions:

* No
* Yes
* Yes
* It's not poor. It is certainly better than what was on the service 6 years ago. Further upgrading was not specified (i.e. paid for by the DfT) in the franchise agreement
* So they can say there is a first class lounge
* Depends who wins. Unlikely to be any new or even refurbed stock, but the catering offer may improve. It depends what the DfT want to buy.

The service is essentially the same as Virgin trains was pre-pendolino, just with the downside of no free catering. But this is offset by going somewhere reasonably nice. With due apologies to residents of Coventry, Warrington etc.

 

[387star]

National Express paid little attention to WAGN and Silverlink so there is a clear trend here. Silverlink trains continued to sport NSE upholstery and the 313s became a disgrace. Meanwhile WAGN left the 365s in NSE livery and the 317s recieved a very minor refresh.

MML, C2C and ScotRail are the only franchises they seemed to invest in.

 

[317666]

Personally I do quite like the NXEA Mk3s, the seats are still quite comfortable (at least in standard) and the ambience is a lot nicer than some other Mk3s (FGW for example) as it still has dim lighting and a good amount of table seats.

 

[sidmouth]

When I lived in Norwich my experience was that Anglia set the bar on how to run a franchise whilst NX has shown how it should not be done... I remember Anglia with fond memories and would often upgrade 1st to get the extra level of service but why bother with NX. I then moved to Peterborough and endured NXEC before their thankful demise. I just don't think NX management realise the business benefits (ie profit) of attracting 1st upgrades but requires differentiation in terms of customer experience (ie make it make it worthwhile).
I note the previous posts remarking how cheap it is to upgrade to 1st with NXEA but wonder how much more they'd pay if offered a better level of service (which actually doesn't cost much more to provide). No wonder the NX share price is / had been heading south with management like that.

 

[jon0844]

The Wagn refresh of the 317/1s looked great - for about ten minutes! They did put on anti-etch film and repainted the walls, and they did also replace the lighting with cool white fluorescent tubes, but within no time at all - it all began to fall to bits.

The flooring was the first to go, followed by the destruction of the painted walls when they removed the Wagn posters/route maps that were literally STUCK on instead of being put within frames.

FCC's subsequent re-refresh was a lot better with new flooring and another set of seat covers.

Oh and Wagn installed a PIS system on the 317s too - which is crap as obvious electrical problems on the trains (which knocks out half the tubes) has resulted in loads of screens not working at all, or glitching... and that's when the drivers actually bother to use it. From the outside, the destination screen is usually off or broken (showing random pixels and corruption).

To be fair to NX though, the 365s couldn't be painted or vinyled until the paint warranty ran out which was around 2006, or ten years after the trains went into service. That didn't excuse them doing bugger all on the inside though!

 

[junglejames]

they get all the passed down stock from the WCML, first they got 86s and the Mk2s now they have Skodas and Mk3s.....they will probably get the first batch of Pendolinos when they get shabby and the 11 coach ones take over the WCML. National express are a coach company so never expect big investment with them anyway. The 87s should of been used in Anglia instead of the now unreliable 90s.

I know, its disgraceful when you have locos that right now are some of the most reliable Intercity stock. Whatever next. Second behind the 91s if I remember correctly (remember, those suburban DEMUs called voyagers arent counted as Intercity stock).

So, I suppose its time for me to stick up for the Mk3s here. Not NatEx, as they havent helped, but the trains themselves.
The refurb itself wasnt a problem. It kept the absolutely amazing original seats, and didnt unnecessarily waste money (unlike operators like FGW). Admittedly though power points should have been added.

However, subsequent maintenance has been bad in first class. The criticisms regarding the lights and recline are well founded. Apart from the recline though, the seats are very nice. Ive never been bothered about having moveable armrests, because invariably having a moveable armrest means having an armrest which is too narrow.

Yes, they could have done a little bit more on the refurb (esp adding power points, and more reliable gangway doors), but the main problem lies with the maintenance of them. This has been bad in first class, although amazingly ive never had a problem in standard class. Always have fantastic journeys.
Also it seems as though first class service is next to nothing.

The coaches themselves were getting bad stick in the OPs rant, but its not so much the coaches, and more the management, lack of first class service and lack of maintenance.

These coaches were replaced on the WCML as Virgin wanted quicker journey times. However since then, reports seem to show that passengers prefer the interior of the Mk3s over the Pendys. So, remember modern doesnt necessarily mean better.

 

[jon0844]

What was over the top with FGW's refurb (besides the lighting issue, which they've fixed)?

It's a very pleasant environment and the entertainment coach is proving very popular (perhaps helped by them giving away free voucher codes to launch the Hollywood movie service). So much so that we didn't even go for Weekend First as it seemed pointless. The legroom in standard is excellent too and I was certainly not uncomfortable for the three hours spent on it. Not bad for a train of its age! (The same goes for other TOCs who have done the same with their ageing stock).

When you travel on a FGW HST (even the normal standard class coaches) it makes you think you'd be very happy to travel again. In fact, you'd probably prefer to take that train than drive, take a coach or whatever. So, the money spent on the refresh will make money for FGW.

The money NOT spent by National Express will do the opposite. The seats may be comfortable, as I know from sitting in them in First Class on a 317, but when I'm sat down, my eyes see all the bad things.

Commuters may not have a choice, but surely leisure travellers who can be choosy will remember how tatty the experience was and not rush to go again?

 

[lm321412]

National Express paid little attention to WAGN and Silverlink so there is a clear trend here. Silverlink trains continued to sport NSE upholstery and the 313s became a disgrace. Meanwhile WAGN left the 365s in NSE livery and the 317s recieved a very minor refresh.

MML, C2C and ScotRail are the only franchises they seemed to invest in.

Utter Garbage.

You only have to look at how the 317/7s and 317/8s were extensively refurbished for Stansted Express. I do not really know why the 365s were never painted, but it could be hardwearing paint (like on Freight locos) as FCC have only rubbed it down and applied vinyls which if you removed you would see the old NSE livery underneath again.

I think every franchise has had money invested in them, including Silverlink but you have to consider budgets, agendas and priorities. It seems there is a bit of a head hunt for National Express without people actually knowing that investment has been put in, even if NXEA currently show little of it.

 

[87015]

Silverlink was a lot better than London sodding Midland.

 

[313103]

Utter Garbage.

You only have to look at how the 317/7s and 317/8s were extensively refurbished for Stansted Express. I do not really know why the 365s were never painted, but it could be hardwearing paint (like on Freight locos) as FCC have only rubbed it down and applied vinyls which if you removed you would see the old NSE livery underneath again.

I think every franchise has had money invested in them, including Silverlink but you have to consider budgets, agendas and priorities. It seems there is a bit of a head hunt for National Express without people actually knowing that investment has been put in, even if NXEA currently show little of it.

Well i was an employee of Silverlink all the way through the franchise, and frankly NEGs way of running it was to split the company in half and invest more in the County side of things whilst letting the metro side fall apart, there were exceptions, replacing clapped out class 117s with class 150s however they did look at the cheaper option and tried to see if the 14X classes that were dumped at Doncaster would be worth having, They did try to alleviate the crowding issue by running 4 trains ph during the peak period, and they introduced 313s on the Claphams to replace the 117s.

Whilst they tried to placate the passenger, there relationship with the staff left a lot to be desired, negotiations were always difficult and they treated a lot of there staff with contempt as a necessary evil, placating one grade at the behest of the majority of its staff. As i mentioned earlier they prouded themselves on the fact they paid some of the lowest salaries in the industry. At least now i have a MD who will actually came up and speak to me and tries to show that he cares, unlike the anonymous Managers we had under silverlink who would not answer letters and would even lie to its union reps!

I understand how budgets work, how politics work and how agendas work all i wanted from my Silverlink was little transparency and a little honesty, as a company council rep in 9 of of Silverlinks 10 years, i was left with a bitter taste in the mouth, i will never trust a Manager again, i was left with very high stress levels trying to balence the garbage the company offered to helping the staff, such is now that even after 4 years of TfL ownership i am on medication for the problems started under silverlink.

I am not having a go at Silverlink per say, more the way NEG ran it.