NS orders more FLIRT trains

[Trainbike46]

NS has reported today that they have ordered more FLIRT trains. These new trains are referred to as "FLIRT Flex", as they will be for both IC and 'sprinter' (stopping) services. The order consists of 18 4-car and 18 6-car trains, with options for more.

NS already operates 64 FLIRT trains (58 in Brabant and 6 in South Holland), it is not clear from the announcements whether the new trains will be compatible (for multi-working etc.) with the existing trains.

NS koopt 36 nieuwe sprinters, treinen ook als IC inzetbaar

NS koopt voor ruim 400 miljoen 36 nieuwe sprinters. De hypermoderne treinen, met de naam Flirt Flex, krijgen in tegenstelling tot de huidige sprinters weer het klassieke geelblauwe NS-uiterlijk. De eerste treinen komen naar verwachting in 2030 op het Nederlandse spoor.

nieuws.ns.nl

 

[Amalie]

It’s worth to mention that the existing NS Flirts were off-the-shelf regional ones, ordered because they needed new Sprinter (stopping) trains on a short notice.

Even though they’re both Flirts, these new ones and their existing ones are somewhat different in capabilities and passenger comfort.

Just like the interior renders for the DDNG (their new double decker train,) I am somewhat wary of those ironing-board looking seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just like the interior renders for the DDNG (their new double decker train,) I am somewhat wary of those ironing-board looking seats.

2+2 in first class as well - not good for IC!

 

[Trainbike46]

Stadler also has an announcement on their website:

Stadler to supply 36 commuter trains to the Netherlands | Stadler

Default Description

www.stadlerrail.com

It’s worth to mention that the existing NS Flirts were off-the-shelf regional ones, ordered because they needed new Sprinter (stopping) trains on a short notice.

That's correct, and worth mentioning. Though I think that only applies to the FLIRTs in Brabant and not to the South Holland ones?

Even though they’re both Flirts, these new ones and their existing ones are somewhat different in capabilities and passenger comfort.

Just like the interior renders for the DDNG (their new double decker train,) I am somewhat wary of those ironing-board looking seats.

They are definitely different trains, based on renders and statements from both NS and Stadler.

However, the question of multi-working with existing FLIRTS is a relevant one, especially given how small this order is. These new trains will be used for Sprinter services as well as IC services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==

2+2 in first class as well - not good for IC!

Unfortunately the DDNG is getting that too, so I fear NS might be on the way to abolishing first class completely.

 

[MisterT]

it is not clear from the announcements whether the new trains will be compatible (for multi-working etc.) with the existing trains.

They won't. Even though they use the same FLIRT name, the new trains will use a completely different way of communication.
So it's basically a whole new train type.

Unfortunately the DDNG is getting that too, so I fear NS might be on the way to abolishing first class completely.

First class is too profitable. I don't like the 2+2 seating in 1st either, but more and more TOCs seem to do it. It's basically a free capacity increase.
From what I understand is that trials/research showed that most people actually don't really mind 2+2, although there are obviously exceptions.
The new first class design from NS got the same rating from travellers that took part in the trials/research as the old one, thanks to some other design choices. Most people travelling in 1st did it for status or a better chance at a seat during rush hour, not because of the wider seats.

 

[STINT47]

I think first class in the Netherlands will become 2 + 2 over time. Your mainly paying for a quieter carriage off peak and at peak times a seat.

In Belgium a lot of first is 2 + 2 and the same seats as standard but people still pay for it, whilst SNCB show no signs of withdrawing it.

I will be a shame to see first downgraded but if NS can still get passengers in it why wouldn't they reduce the offering?

 

[duesselmartin]

2+2 in first class as well - not good for IC!

Dutch IC trains are more like regional services in larger countries.

 

[A S Leib]

Durch IC trains are more like regional services in larger countries.

I think the longest domestic intercity service is currently Alkmaar to Maastricht, which at three hours is shorter than services like Mannheim – Saarbrücken – Trier – Koblenz or Cardiff – Portsmouth.

 

[rvdborgt]

I think the longest domestic intercity service is currently Alkmaar to Maastricht, which at three hours is shorter than services like Mannheim – Saarbrücken – Trier – Koblenz or Cardiff – Portsmouth.

Next year there'll be Vlissingen-Zwolle again.

 

[STINT47]

This is off topic but does anyone know what happened to the plan to run an IC service to Aachen? This was meant to happen with the new ICGN trains which have now been introduced but there has been no news about the service.

 

[Trainbike46]

They won't. Even though they use the same FLIRT name, the new trains will use a completely different way of communication.
So it's basically a whole new train type.

I'm assuming this is based on your internal knowledge so I'm sure it is right.

However, being a whole new train type doesn't inherently mean it is incompatible with a previous train type. The valleilijn FLIRTs are compatible with the PROTOS trains on the same line, for example. I thought there would be operational advantages to having the new FLIRT FLEX being compatible with the existing FLIRT, especially given how small the new order is.

First class is too profitable. I don't like the 2+2 seating in 1st either, but more and more TOCs seem to do it. It's basically a free capacity increase.
From what I understand is that trials/research showed that most people actually don't really mind 2+2, although there are obviously exceptions.
The new first class design from NS got the same rating from travellers that took part in the trials/research as the old one, thanks to some other design choices. Most people travelling in 1st did it for status or a better chance at a seat during rush hour, not because of the wider seats.

I'm sure NS will keep it as long as people will pay for it!

 

[Amalie]

However, the question of multi-working with existing FLIRTS is a relevant one, especially given how small this order is. These new trains will be used for Sprinter services as well as IC services.

Even if they could, this seems unlikely to happen. Their existing FLIRTs are already rarely used outside their region where they’re exclusively used for Sprinter services to my knowledge. This seems more like a replacement of their SLT trains, which are the ones that are sometimes used for Intercity services. The Valijelijn has good reason to want that backwards compatibility with the Protons, but I see it being less necessary here for NS.

This is off topic but does anyone know what happened to the plan to run an IC service to Aachen? This was meant to happen with the new ICGN trains which have now been introduced but there has been no news about the service.

They’re working on getting an ICNG variant certified that is capable of also running in Germany. However, they have not mentioned for what specific route they wish to use it for.

 

[Trainbike46]

Even if they could, this seems unlikely to happen. Their existing FLIRTs are already rarely used outside their region where they’re exclusively used for Sprinter services to my knowledge. This seems more like a replacement of their SLT trains, which are the ones that are sometimes used for Intercity services. The Valijelijn has good reason to want that backwards compatibility with the Protons, but I see it being less necessary here for NS.

Except the SLTs aren't being replaced, this order seems to be exclusively for growth. The reason the existing FLIRTs are being kept to their region is that it is to keep them "close" to their maintenance facility (in Maastricht). I don't think we know yet where NS will want to maintain the new FLIRT FLEX, do we?

 

[rvdborgt]

This is off topic but does anyone know what happened to the plan to run an IC service to Aachen? This was meant to happen with the new ICGN trains which have now been introduced but there has been no news about the service.

NS have never been enthusiastic about this service, so I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Also, now that there are 2 regional trains per hour between Heerlen and Aachen, I doubt any additional paths are available without cancelling any of the Arriva trains.

 

[DanielB]

The valleilijn FLIRTs are compatible with the PROTOS trains on the same line, for example.

No they aren't. That's actually why there are two FLIRTs at the Valleilijn so they can use them in double traction. (Which they couldn't previously when they had only one GTW on that line).

The reason the existing FLIRTs are being kept to their region is that it is to keep them "close" to their maintenance facility (in Maastricht).

Keeping close to the maintenance facility is not really a thing for NS. They previously maintained DDAR in Maastricht which didn't ever get nearby for example.
The reason they are kept in the south is that they have a different toilet system due to being purchased off the shelf, so they simply wanted to limit the number of service locations where they had to install facilities to empty the FLIRTs toilets.

 

[Struner]

Next year there'll be Vlissingen-Zwolle again.

& using their most ancient stock as usual?

 

[rvdborgt]

& using their most ancient stock as usual?

That wouldn't surprise me. DDZ is already on Zwolle-Roosendaal a lot.

 

[Bemined]

Except that DDZ is not the oldest rolling stock. There are still some ICM units from 1987 running, oldest DDZ units are from 1991. Oldest VIRM units are from 1994 so DDZ is not really that much older anyhow, but it feels older as DDZ is based on an older design (the oldest DDM-1 cars were from 1984).

 

[Struner]

Except that DDZ is not the oldest rolling stock. There are still some ICM units from 1987 running, oldest DDZ units are from 1991. Oldest VIRM units are from 1994 so DDZ is not really that much older anyhow, but it feels older as DDZ is based on an older design (the oldest DDM-1 cars were from 1984).

you missed the point
whenever I was on this route, usually starting or finishing in Zwolle, it was the oldest units they could muster (must be since about sixty years by now…)
but it was & is convenient, a through service
& yes, I have used it all the way Zwolle-Vlissingen a few times.

 

[rvdborgt]

whenever I was on this route, usually starting or finishing in Zwolle, it was the oldest units they could muster (must be since about sixty years by now…)

It wasn't always the case. ICM and ICR have been used on this route. DD-IRM was also used on it soon after it was introduced back in the 90s. But indeed at many other times, the (almost) oldest stock available ran.

 

[johncrossley]

Are loadings in 1st class low enough to expect to have an empty seat next to you most of the time?

 

[MisterT]

During rush hours, all seats are taken in most trains, but outside rush hours, having an empty seat next to you shouldn't really be an issue.

 

[NCT]

I don't how how representative this experience is - in 2022 I took an ICD, at that time one of the handful operated with the ICNG. It was an Amsterdam - Rotterdam in the afternoon peak, run with just a 5-car. People were standing in First Class.

 

[MisterT]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Surely, when people are standing, all seats are taken as well. That's exactly the same as I said?
And ofc just a 5 car during rush hour is simply a short formed train. The trains are usually planned with at least 10 or 13 cars.

 

[NCT]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Surely, when people are standing, all seats are taken as well. That's exactly the same as I said?
And ofc just a 5 car during rush hour is simply a short formed train. The trains are usually planned with at least 10 or 13 cars.

I mean if First Class is routinely full or even standing (I wasn't sure if standing was routine - hence my question), then going for 2+2 probably isn't a bad shout.

 

[MisterT]

The number of first class seats will not change, if I understand correctly. So basically same capacity in a smaller space, and more 2nd class seats per train.

 

[chubs]

& using their most ancient stock as usual?

Bring some DDM1's out of retirement (again)?