nre.co.uk and doubling back

[miami]

Any idea why national rail suggests doubling back on some journeys

For example search for Euston to Whitchuch tonight

21:10 London Euston(EUS)

Arrives
00:59 Whitchurch (Shropshire) (WTC)
3h 49m, and,2 changes

The route changing at Crewe (Arrive 2259), board the 2318, call at Nantwich 2325, Wrenbury, Whitchurch at 2338, then Preese, Wem, Yorton, arriving Shrewsbury at 00:06, in time for the 00:34 calling at Yorton, Wem, Prees and then Whitchurch at 00:59

It is cheaper than the 2110 EUS-Crewe, then the 2318, getting off at Whitchurch at 2338 - at £59 rather than £72.60, shown here



As it seems to think a "Via Shrewsbury" ticket is valid.

> Tickets can be bought in advance or immediately before travel.
> Valid only for travel via (changing trains or passing through) Shrewsbury.

Surely it's a double back and shouldn't be valid?

I can see the benefit of such a journey -- there is no step free access from the southbound side of Whitchurch, but the same situation applies from Euston to Wrenbury, and there is Step Free access at Wrenbury

 

[Wallsendmag]

Does it not suggest two tickets ? What's the warning triangle ?

 

[Benjwri]

I guess this could be because of it considering a route 'via' a location separately on either side. Euston to Shrewsbury is valid via Crewe, and I'm don't think there is a requirement to check for double backs in this case?

Does it not suggest two tickets ? What's the warning triangle ?

No it is offering a single ticket. Warning triangle is winter weather warnings.

 

[MrJeeves]

I guess this could be because of it considering a route 'via' a location separately on either side. Euston to Shrewsbury is valid via Crewe, and I'm don't think there is a requirement to check for double backs in this case?

Correct, it just needs to follow a permitted route to the via point within the fares data, and from that via point to the journey destination.

From RSPS5047, the spec used by automated journey planners:

If a routed fare is found to be invalid, then the journey can be split at the via locations contained in the route descriptor. Each part of the journey must follow a permitted route. If all part journeys are permitted, then the routed fare is valid, and the journey is deemed to be “split for routeing”.

There is no requirement to ensure there is not a doubleback between the part-journeys.

 

[blimmo]

From RSPS5045, the spec used by automated journey planners

I have a feeling I know the answer but is this published anywhere?

 

[yorkie]

Surely it's a double back and shouldn't be valid?

I agree it's not valid, and indeed the forum site I'm sure (I've not checked) would not issue such an itinerary on one ticket, however not for this reason.

It's not valid because of the double-call at the origin; the ticket expires once you reach Whitchurch and cannot be used beyond the destination.

If the train was from Euston to Shrewsbury via Whitchurch, not calling there, and then there was a train from Shrewsbury to Whitchurch, that would be valid, regardless of any double-back.

It's a myth that you can't double-back; if this myth was true, a journey such as Carluke to Bushey would only be valid via the East Coast Mainline, which would be absurd.

 

[MrJeeves]

I have a feeling I know the answer but is this published anywhere?

Yes, and it helps if I quote the right spec number, RSPS5047. RDG provide it publicly:

ASSIST public documentation

www.rspaccreditation.org

 

[Wallsendmag]

Unsurprisingly other sites using the same journey planner offer the same answer.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Surely it's a double back and shouldn't be valid?

I agree it's not valid

Whether it should be valid or not I don't know, but it absolutely is valid thanks to the recent changes to the Conditions of Travel.