Now I am so interested in Third Rail Issue

[xhpuam]

I've been to England once, around London.

I noticed that vast area of rail way is powered by 3rd rail.

In my country all the third rail system must be protected by fence that no one can enter the area.

But I think in England you have exposed all these danger to public, which indicates if kids wanna have fun on the third rail they can walk on to it, yet I am still not sure.

So can anyone kindly verify, that you do not have the protection for public for these railway system? And why it is designed this way? May be some photo can help. I am so curious in the answer.

 

[asylumxl]

As far as I know, the railway in this country does have to be fenced off and it is the responsibility of Network Rail to maintain the fences.

We have some 3rd rail level crossings, which I believe ideally NR would like to get rid of, but unfortunately the funds are not available for it.

 

[northwichcat]

In England it's only commuter lines around London and Liverpool that are powered by third rail. Visiting London may give the impression that we have a lot of third rail but that's not typical of the whole country.

 

[WestCoast]

In England it's only commuter lines around London and Liverpool that are powered by third rail. Visiting London may give the impression that we have a lot of third rail but that's not typical of the whole country.

Yes, it's a false impression, since third rail is only in two distinct areas, albeit one region being very large.

 

[xhpuam]

Yes, it's a false impression, since third rail is only in two distinct areas, albeit one region being very large.

But I see a few video indicating that the 3rd rail area is not completely isolated from wild field, which means the kids can walk onto it in some region right? Can you get me some photos? I've been searching but I can not find these(not kids on 3rd rail, but third rail open to wild)

 

[exile]

All British railway property is fenced off, this was a condition of early Acts of Parliament authorising railways, mainly to prevent livestock straying onto tracks and being killed.

 

[WestCoast]

But I see a few video indicating that the 3rd rail area is not completely isolated from wild field, which means the kids can walk onto it in some region right? Can you get me some photos? I've been searching but I can not find these(not kids on 3rd rail, but third rail open to wild)

I haven't come across a third rail line open to fields. UK Railway regulation is strict about fencing. As for kids on the line, they would have to get past the fence, so they are putting their own lives at risk.

 

[bluenoxid]

I've been to England once, around London.

I noticed that vast area of rail way is powered by 3rd rail.

In my country all the third rail system must be protected by fence that no one can enter the area.

But I think in England you have exposed all these danger to public, which indicates if kids wanna have fun on the third rail they can walk on to it, yet I am still not sure.

So can anyone kindly verify, that you do not have the protection for public for these railway system? And why it is designed this way? May be some photo can help. I am so curious in the answer.

Railway land should be fenced off regardless of power form. We do not always fence off to the railway line and fences can be quite a distance away from the tracks due to track removal or pieces of infrastructure such as cuttings or embankments.

 

[eMeS]

...

In my country all the third rail system must be protected by fence that no one can enter the area....

So why don't you tell us what your country is? It might help us to understand your point of view.

 

[ainsworth74]

But I see a few video indicating that the 3rd rail area is not completely isolated from wild field, which means the kids can walk onto it in some region right?

It will be fenced off (or should be at any rate) but the fencing might be quite small (say only a metre or so tall), possibly a fair distance from the running track and possibly blend into the surroundings quite well (for instance a wooden post with just wire between them could easily be lost amongst other foliage around the railway). Take a look at this example, the fence is not very obvious at even this close distance (just a metre or two away) but it is there. Hence it's perfectly possible that the track you're thinking of is fenced it's just not obvious.

 

[battersea]

As asylumxl mentioned, there are some level crossings where tracks with a third rail are easily accessible. It's not a field though.

 

[Bungle73]

As far as I know, the railway in this country does have to be fenced off and it is the responsibility of Network Rail to maintain the fences.

We have some 3rd rail level crossings, which I believe ideally NR would like to get rid of, but unfortunately the funds are not available for it.

How would they get rid of them? It's all very well in the country where there is plenty of space to build a bridge, but what about in the town where there's limited space?

 

[asylumxl]

How would they get rid of them? It's all very well in the country where there is plenty of space to build a bridge, but what about in the town where there's limited space?

That's why they don't have the funds.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

How would they get rid of them? It's all very well in the country where there is plenty of space to build a bridge, but what about in the town where there's limited space?

A neutral section?

 

[Bungle73]

A neutral section?

Neutral section?

 

[asylumxl]

A non-electrified section of track. Usually seperating two different substations.

 

[wintonian]

A non-electrified section of track. Usually seperating two different substations.

Isn't that what a level crossing is?

 

[Eagle]

Level crossings don't have third rail running across them...

Especially not pedestrian level crossings.

 

[Bungle73]

I thought he meant a long section of track that was switched off when not being used.

A non-electrified section of track. Usually seperating two different substations.

Oh. But isn't the main problem of level crossing vehicles crossing when the lights are red. Electrocutions seem to be more when people cross the line as a short cut, or walk along the track.

 

[scotsman]

To clarify: A neutral section is a section of track with no overall charge, hence the name, "neutral"

The third rail is still there, but drivers cannot take power fromt it

 

[asylumxl]

Isn't that what a level crossing is?

Well he asked what a neutral section was. Am I missing something? I was giving a definition, though they tend to be for AC. I believe to escape problems with phase difference between electricity from other substations.

 

[Rhydgaled]

A neutral section?

There are gaps in the 3rd rail at level crossings, the trains being long enough that a 3rd rail shoe at one end of the train should still be on the 3rd rail. However, unless you go back to the old fashioned level crossing gates (white with red circles) that are closed to the railway when they are open to the road, there's nothing to stop anyone who doesn't realise the dangers walking along the track onto the 3rd rail at a level crossing. Anywhere else the railway (even if it isn't electrified) is supposed to be fenced off.

 

[Eagle]

And of course most people are sensible enough not to go down the tracks at a level crossing. Look at this pedestrian level crossing on the SWML in Poole. the juice is maybe about two metres away from the edges of the crossing, but I've never heard of any accident, electrocution or otherwise, on this busy street.

 

[Bungle73]

There are gaps in the 3rd rail at level crossings, the trains being long enough that a 3rd rail shoe at one end of the train should still be on the 3rd rail.

Yeah, I know, that's why I questioned what a neutral section was in that one could solve the level crossing live 3rd rail "problem".

However, unless you go back to the old fashioned level crossing gates (white with red circles) that are closed to the railway when they are open to the road, there's nothing to stop anyone who doesn't realise the dangers walking along the track onto the 3rd rail at a level crossing. Anywhere else the railway (even if it isn't electrified) is supposed to be fenced off.

Who are these people who don't realise the dangers?

Also every crossing I've seen has those wooden things that stop people walking along the track.

 

[wintonian]

Well he asked what a neutral section was. Am I missing something? I was giving a definition, though they tend to be for AC. I believe to escape problems with phase difference between electricity from other substations.

I think I misunderstood the concept.

And of course most people are sensible enough not to go down the tracks at a level crossing. Look at this pedestrian level crossing on the SWML in Poole. the juice is maybe about two metres away from the edges of the crossing, but I've never heard of any accident, electrocution or otherwise, on this busy street.

Mind you there is also a bridge over the tracks.

It also would be considerably quicker to walk along the tracks from there to the station.


Talking about old fashioned level crossing gates I found this picture of the crossing in Poole from 1970.

 

[Bungle73]

Looks like a much larger gap than 2 metres to me. And besides, like I said previously, you cant just walk along track from the crossing because of those wooden things they put there.

 

[wintonian]

Looks like a much larger gap than 2 metres to me. And besides, like I said previously, you cant just walk along track from the crossing because of those wooden things they put there.

Yes they do make it more difficult, but I don’t think there purpose is to actually prevent people from walking on to the track more to discourage people, if someone really wants to walk down there they will find a way after all the wooden slats do seem quite easy to circumnavigate (example).

 

[class377man]

It's certainly not impossible (or even particularly difficult) to walk over those wooden slats, I've seen people do it.

 

[Ze Random One]

I guess that part of it is to do with education. In many countries it is perfectly normal to walk alongside or across the track (it is often used just like any other right-of-way). Therefore where there are additional safety considerations (3rd rail, high speed trains etc.), additional measures have to be taken to discourage people from taking their normal approach.

However, in the UK, a very proactive approach is taken to educating people not to go near the operational parts of the railway. I certainly remember, on more than one occasion, British Transport Police doing a presentation about trackside safety during assembly at both my primary and secondary school. There was usually some sort of video, and it was made very clear that the rails may be electrified at lethal voltage (I grew up in southern England, where third rail is prevalent).

As an observation, I have only ever once seen anyone in the UK cross the tracks away from an official crossing, and that was in an area 100 miles from the nearest third rail. In reality, it just isn't done. To the extent that I have seen people panic when a track worker has gone out onto the open tracks, even though they were supposed to be there, with the required training and permission.

 

[Matt Taylor]

And of course most people are sensible enough not to go down the tracks at a level crossing. Look at this pedestrian level crossing on the SWML in Poole. the juice is maybe about two metres away from the edges of the crossing, but I've never heard of any accident, electrocution or otherwise, on this busy street.

All the more surprising given that it is the most abused LC on SWT.