Nottingham Trams - tap on/off

[Surreytraveller]

Could someone familiar with Nottingham's trams advise me, when tapping off outside a short hop zone (or indeed within a short hop zone), how does the system know whether you're ending a journey, or starting a new one?

 

[Steddenm]

Ir works out the location of the original tap on when you started your journey and works out the distance between stops when you tap off whether that be within the short fare zone or not. Same as how TOTO (tap on, tap off) works on buses, London Underground, some national rail services etc.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Ir works out the location of the original tap on when you started your journey and works out the distance between stops when you tap off whether that be within the short fare zone or not. Same as how TOTO (tap on, tap off) works on buses, London Underground, some national rail services etc.

I see that, but tapping off is optional. So I'm just confused about how it knows whether I'm ending a journey, or beginning a new one?

 

[sprunt]

I see that, but tapping off is optional. So I'm just confused about how it knows whether I'm ending a journey, or beginning a new one?

I would guess that it's based on the length of time between the two taps and the time that it might take to travel between them. So if you tap at David Lane, then tap at Market Square 20 minutes later it's safe to assume that you're tapping ff. If the second tap is an hour later, then it's likely you're starting a new journey, with some threshold between.

 

[edwin_m]

It seems to me this has a lot of scope to go badly for people unfamiliar with where/how the short fares apply.

If you tap at two stations that are too far apart for a short fare then do you get charged two full fares?

If you tap in at one station, don't realise that your destination has a short fare and soon after arriving there tap in another journey from that stop, then would you just be charged a short fare and be unpaid for the second journey.

 

[Nottingham59]

It seems to me this has a lot of scope to go badly for people unfamiliar with where/how the short fares apply.

Welcome to the land of tram bylaws. Written for the convenience of the operator, so that all the risk falls on the passenger.

If you tap at two stations that are too far apart for a short fare then do you get charged two full fares?

Looks like it.

If you tap in at one station, don't realise that your destination has a short fare and soon after arriving there tap in another journey from that stop, then would you just be charged a short fare and be unpaid for the second journey.

Yep. Similar to London Underground. If you go on the train to, say Fenchurch St to pick up a parcel and come back straight back, but start your return from Tower Gateway DLR then the system assumes it's a single journey with an OSI and you're likely to exceed the time limits for that journey when you get back home.

 

[py_megapixel]

£1.50 fare is for short hop journeys only, which must be completed within 20 minutes, otherwise a single journey is £3.50 and must be completed within 90 minutes from the time of purchase and cannot be used to make a return trip. For your return trip you must tap on again, and the amount charged will be limited to the daily cap.

(from https://nottinghamcontactless.co.uk/prices)

The only interpretation of that which makes any sense to me is that a short hop is defined as a journey that can be completed in 20 minutes. That makes it very easy: if your second tap is within 20 mins of your first it's a tap out, otherwise it's a tap in for the next journey.

But hang on, no, further up the page it says:

If you are travelling on NET trams wholly within a short hop zone you will also need to Tap Off to get the best fare available.

So, there is a thing called a "short hop zone"? But that isn't referenced anywhere else on the page, there are no "short hop zones" on the zone map and there's no link to explain what it is.

Maybe it's just that if your journey is wholly within one zone it's a short hop, and if it crosses a boundary it isn't? But that makes very little sense, because some of the zones look massive and you could cross the whole thing on a short hop ticket, and yet a one-stop journey that happens to cross a boundary would cost the full fare.

Who on earth writes this nonsense?

 

[DDB]

The tram website is clearer and has a map of the zones
https://www.thetram.net/short-hop-zones

There are 9 short hop zones covering the whole network with tickets for any single journey within each zone costing only £1.50 when you pay by contactless at one of our validators. A short hop ticket from the ticket vending machine is £2.

The maps are also at every tram stop and onboard the trams. It really isn't difficult for anyone actually using the trams.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Yes, short hops have to both be within a short hop zone and completed within 20 minutes.
It's mentioned on the webinar somewhere that a £3.50 fare has to be completed within 90 minutes, but you don't have to tap out. But if you do tap out, it's still £3.50.
But if that second tap within 90 minutes is actually a new journey being started, what happens if you get stopped by an inspector at 100 minutes? Should you have tapped out? Then tapped in? Could that third tap be seen as the ending of a twenty minute short hop?
Can inspectors see taps on credit cards?

 

[tram21]

Yes, short hops have to both be within a short hop zone and completed within 20 minutes.
It's mentioned on the webinar somewhere that a £3.50 fare has to be completed within 90 minutes, but you don't have to tap out. But if you do tap out, it's still £3.50.
But if that second tap within 90 minutes is actually a new journey being started, what happens if you get stopped by an inspector at 100 minutes? Should you have tapped out? Then tapped in? Could that third tap be seen as the ending of a twenty minute short hop?
Can inspectors see taps on credit cards?

A second tap in not within a short hop zone will always charge you again, taking you up to the daily cap. Any future taps will be 'free'. Its a simple system really. You never need to tap out, unless doing a short hop journey. The short hop zones are very clearly marked at tram stops and onboard.

Inspections regularly take place, and inspectors check contactless as well using the same device they use for all Inspections, which shows whether the contactless card has been validated, and is therefore valid for that journey.