Nottingham Tram - fall in passenger numbers

[ashworth]

The following is an extract from a report today on the BBC Nottingham website:

Nottingham tram network sees slump in passenger numbers

The number of journeys taken on Nottingham's tram network are at their lowest since it opened, figures from the Department for Transport show.

The network has lost more than a quarter of its passengers in the last five years.

A fall from 10.2 million in 2007/8 to 7.4 million last year.

The Tramlink Nottingham consortium, which operates the service, said the loss of concession ticketing and the recession were to blame.

Chief executive Phil Hewitt said the figures were "disappointing but not unexpected".

I know that fares are probably quite comparable to other tram systems but I have heard a lot of people complaining in recent months that the tram fares are no longer a cheap option like they were when the trams first started running. An All Day Ticket costing £3.50 seems very good value but as there is nothing less except for the £2 single they are high fares if you are only making one short distance single or return journey. I know the very simple fares system is a good idea but when it is only one price no matter what length of journey, the steep price rises over last couple of years have really put lots of people off travelling shorter journeys.

Even on a longer journey covering the whole length of the line from Hucknall to Station Street, a return on the much quicker Robin Hood Line train, which only takes approx one third of the time, is 30p cheaper at £3.20.

 

[MCR247]

The fact it changed hands will be the main reason. I'd expect a rise (hopefully!) when Mango is introduced...

 

[Yew]

Whats that? Make it more expensive and remove a day save ticket valid on busses, and passenger numbers go down? Who would have thought it....

 

[gordonthemoron]

this was bound to happen once NCT lost their position as part owners of NET, NCT day tickets and NCT easy rider tickets are no longer valid on the tram so NCT bus users stick to using buses. The council want their heads examined

 

[radamfi]

Loadings may be down, but are they still busy? I haven't been on it for a while but on the few times I've been on it, admittedly on Saturday afternoon, it has generally been very crowded.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Mango won't be introduced.
And even if Nottingham City Transport had won the contract they wouldn't have been allowed to let passengers use easyrider anymore.

Basically the City Council have said Kangaroo tickets are the only multi operator ticket ones to be valid.

Loadings don't seem bad but certain times of the day are very empty. Apparently average tram loadings are now 29, down from 36 5 years ago.

 

[gordonthemoron]

why wouldn't they have been allowed to use easyrider anymore?

 

[edwin_m]

It's a competition thing. A ticket that is interavailable between two bus/tram operators is only permitted if all the other operators are given the chance to participate. Hence the Kangaroo, which is more expensive than any of the single-operator tickets.

 

[gordonthemoron]

which is presumably why they won't introduce Mango?

 

[WillPS]

It's a competition thing. A ticket that is interavailable between two bus/tram operators is only permitted if all the other operators are given the chance to participate. Hence the Kangaroo, which is more expensive than any of the single-operator tickets.

I don't buy that for a second. Competition laws haven't changed since NET opened, and there are no issues with a Sheffield DayRider being valid on both trams and Stagecoach buses in Sheffield. I'd expect SYPTE to be *a lot* more proactive with this sort of thing if it were an issue.

 

[MCR247]

It's a competition thing. A ticket that is interavailable between two bus/tram operators is only permitted if all the other operators are given the chance to participate. Hence the Kangaroo, which is more expensive than any of the single-operator tickets.

I've heard quite a lot that NET will be moving to platform ticket machines in the future with hints that at the same time mango would be introduced?

 

[ashworth]

I've heard a lot of people talking about the price of tram fares over the last few weeks and that really does seem to be the reason many people aren't using it.

If I remember correctly when the tram first started 9 years ago in 2004 the fares were something like £1.70 (All Day Ticket) and 90p single. Therefore the fares have doubled in 9 years. I don't think many people's wages will have doubled in 9 years!!!

A group of 4 adults going into the city would now be better off going by car and paying car park charges than £14 in tram fares. What was once seen as very cheap transport is now seen by many people as being quite expensive. I wonder how many fare paying people actually are using the trams during the day (off peak) if those with concessionary passes were not included in the figures.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

which is presumably why they won't introduce Mango?

Exactly....

 

[edwin_m]

I don't buy that for a second. Competition laws haven't changed since NET opened, and there are no issues with a Sheffield DayRider being valid on both trams and Stagecoach buses in Sheffield. I'd expect SYPTE to be *a lot* more proactive with this sort of thing if it were an issue.

The Competition Commission's 2011 report is in a number of monster files linked from:
http://www.competition-commission.o...tigation/final-report-and-appendices-glossary

Page 403 (in the PDF box) of the main report:

A new entrant should be able to join an existing MTC [multi-operator travelcard] scheme and sell the scheme’s tickets upon commencing supply of local bus services, provided it abides by the terms and rules of the scheme, and should be reimbursed for the multi-operator ticket passengers it carries according to the revenue reimbursement principles of the scheme.

Further details of the reasoning behind this decision is on page 187 of the final Appendices file. The Nottingham case study may also be of interest to those who are following the bus war thread!

I'm not 100% clear on the powers of the Competition Commission but it appears to wield a fair bit of clout:

in relation to merger inquiries but I think it is relevant

the CC has wide-ranging powers to remedy any competition concerns resulting from the merger, including preventing a merger from going ahead. It can also require a company to sell off part of its business or take other steps to improve competition

in relation to market investigations

If the CC finds that features of a market are harming competition, it must seek to remedy the harm either by introducing remedies itself or recommending action by others.

Both from http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/about-us

I think what happened is that the Easyrider was classed as a multi-operator travelcard because NCT and NET (even in the original Arrow era) were different companies. Thus if the Easyrider was to continue to be available on buses and trams, all other bus operators would have had the right to participate. The same must apply now if Trent Barton chose to extend their Saver to the tram, and possibly also Mango too although I haven't searched the report for any difference that would apply to electronic purse type products.

Specific two-operator single/return tickets appear to be treated differently, as Nottingham still has several.

In my view all this is a perfect example of the backflips that people have to do to justify the sham of a degregulated bus system!

 

[bunnahabhain]

A group of 4 adults going into the city would now be better off going by car and paying car park charges than £14 in tram fares.

An EMT Groupsave ticket for the same 4 people would be £6.40 from Hucknall or £5.20 from Bulwell. Much better value for a return trip I think! I do tend to find that if the tram is delayed at Hucknall a fair number of passengers will just hotfoot it over to the first available train towards Nottingham and buy a single instead.

 

[gordonthemoron]

with regards to Trent Barton and NCT, in the past TB tried to discourage passengers from using their buses wholly within the NCT area as they preferred to fill them with people from the county who paid higher fares. They did this by jacking up the fares in Nottingham and (probably unintentionally) not running to timetable when travelling into Nottingham.

This does seem to have changed over the past few years, especially with Rainbow 5/Indigo

 

[AnonymousUser1]

with regards to Trent Barton and NCT, in the past TB tried to discourage passengers from using their buses wholly within the NCT area as they preferred to fill them with people from the county who paid higher fares. They did this by jacking up the fares in Nottingham and (probably unintentionally) not running to timetable when travelling into Nottingham.

This does seem to have changed over the past few years, especially with Rainbow 5/Indigo

is this not a a pre-1986 hang over though when the NBC operators were discouraged from competing with the municipal operator ?

 

[gordonthemoron]

No, it was around 2000. TB put the price of inside Nottingham singles up to the maximum NCT price as they had previously been cheaper

 

[Hyphen]

No, it was around 2000. TB put the price of inside Nottingham singles up to the maximum NCT price as they had previously been cheaper

I lived in Stapleford between 1999 and 2006. To me it seemed that for most of the time the NCT flat fare and TB city fare was on a par. TB did yearly increases of their city fare by 10/20p and it always seemed NCT increased theirs to the same price a month or two later.

(then again, I never travelled on NCT and I never really paid too much attention to the City fare)

 

[edwin_m]

I lived in Stapleford between 1999 and 2006. To me it seemed that for most of the time the NCT flat fare and TB city fare was on a par. TB did yearly increases of their city fare by 10/20p and it always seemed NCT increased theirs to the same price a month or two later.

That's still the case. NCT do have a cheaper fare for very short journeys.

TB would be perfectly entitled to charge more if they chose to, for example to make all their routes do limited stops within the NCT area and market themselves as a premium service at higher fares. They would only fall foul of competition law if they entered into an agreement with NCT or some other company to split the market between them.

 

[Bevan Price]

The following is an extract from a report today on the BBC Nottingham website:



I know that fares are probably quite comparable to other tram systems but I have heard a lot of people complaining in recent months that the tram fares are no longer a cheap option like they were when the trams first started running. An All Day Ticket costing £3.50 seems very good value but as there is nothing less except for the £2 single they are high fares if you are only making one short distance single or return journey. .

If you think that is dear, it is fortunate you do not use Arriva buses here (St. Helens), where the cheapest adult single fare is £2.10

 

[WillPS]

I dunno; I guess it would be fairer if they had scaled prices. I used the Metrolink just for a short hop between the shops and Piccadilly station and there was a return fare of a pound and a few pennies. Seems a pitty that such a visitor to Nottingham would have a fare of double-to-triple that.