Nottingham to Scotland Trains

[tbtc]

With the Manchester Airport - Glasgow/Edinburgh services being EMU operated in a few years time, and no scope of MML/ Hope Valley electrification, there's even less chance of a through service now than if we'd had this thread a few years ago.

Derby does have a bi-hourly Glasgow service (as does Chesterfield), so the East Midlands - Clydeside link is there (albeit not from Nottingham).

Some ridiculous open-access proposal

...like most of them then?

The old "find two places that don't have a direct train service and try to justify linking them (which conveniently piggy backs on busy flows...) trick...

I calculate that a six carriage ED Meridian formed thus:
DMS-MS-MS-PTS-MSM-DMF would have 306 2nd class seats and 30 1st class seats, effectively equivalent to a double Cl185 set.
If you were to run an hourly train from Nottingham to Scotland, alternating in end point between Edinburgh and Glasgow running via Hope Valley, the overall journey time would almost certainly be under 5 hours, accounting for the higher top speed of the Meridian

I love how these ideas expand, so that now we are looking at an hourly service with a dozen (six coach) 222s required...

Meridians have a high top speed, but would be limited to 110 on the WCML, and there's no scope for them to run anywhere near 100 from Nottingham to Preston (due to lines being at capacity).

Nottingham-Scotland didn't fit with the "X" of the Cross Country franchise and so was cut back to a Manchester-Scotland service with VT

This was never anything to do with Virgin, the links were lost before privatisation. There were other links like Ipswich/ Nottingham/ Sheffield - Blackpool too. The hourly Norwich - Liverpool service is the replacement for much of these.

 

[Aictos]

This was never anything to do with Virgin, the links were lost before privatisation. There were other links like Ipswich/ Nottingham/ Sheffield - Blackpool too. The hourly Norwich - Liverpool service is the replacement for much of these.

Don't forget the Cambridge to Blackpool service, if it's still ran it would rule out the need to change at Leeds for passengers using Peterborough,

 

[HSTEd]

I love how these ideas expand, so that now we are looking at an hourly service with a dozen (six coach) 222s required...

Meridians have a high top speed, but would be limited to 110 on the WCML, and there's no scope for them to run anywhere near 100 from Nottingham to Preston (due to lines being at capacity).

Then shunt the ED Meridians into the current XC 221 diagrams, restore the 221 tilt mechanisms with new ED vehicles and the jobs a good'un.

Not sure it makes that much difference between Preston and Glasgow/Carstairs though.

 

[ashworth]

With the Manchester Airport - Glasgow/Edinburgh services being EMU operated in a few years time, and no scope of MML/ Hope Valley electrification, there's even less chance of a through service now than if we'd had this thread a few years ago.

Derby does have a bi-hourly Glasgow service (as does Chesterfield), so the East Midlands - Clydeside link is there (albeit not from Nottingham).

That's why I think if such a service was ever to be re-instated the only sensible route is now Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds-Settle-Carlisle-Glasgow.

I know that Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield do now have a bi hourly service to Glasgow operated by XC but running via the ECML and Edinburgh it does have a long journey time.
I do also accept that any journey via Settle is not going to be particularly fast. However, a reasonably timed limited stop service would link Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds to Carlisle in addition to Glasgow. Even with the limitations off speed over the Settle to Carlise line it may be worth running 2 or 3 services a day. But as I've said before I don't think it will happen.

 

[tbtc]

Then shunt the ED Meridians into the current XC 221 diagrams, restore the 221 tilt mechanisms with new ED vehicles and the jobs a good'un

Where are you finding spare 222s though? Where are the paths (e.g. through Manchester)?

That's why I think if such a service was ever to be re-instated the only sensible route is now Nottingham-Sheffield-Leeds-Settle-Carlisle-Glasgow.

I know that Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield do now have a bi hourly service to Glasgow operated by XC but running via the ECML and Edinburgh it does have a long journey time.
I do also accept that any journey via Settle is not going to be particularly fast. However, a reasonably timed limited stop service would link Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds to Carlisle in addition to Glasgow. Even with the limitations off speed over the Settle to Carlise line it may be worth running 2 or 3 services a day. But as I've said before I don't think it will happen.

Assuming that a service via the Settle & Carlisle was only slightly faster than the current Northern service (you'd serve fewer stations, but still be stuck behind the same freight) you could maybe do Leeds - Glasgow half an hour faster than the current direct XC service (say 4h45 vs 5h15?).

But there's not going to be a lot of passengers between Leeds and Glasgow that way (Carlisle is only about the size of Darlington, and you'd miss the York/Newcastle/Edinburgh markets), which means you'd have to rely on "long distance passengers".

It'd be a scenic way of doing the journey, and I'd like a direct service from Sheffield to places like Settle, don't get me wrong

What I always find slightly odd is that the fastest way from Leeds to Glasgow tends to be via Preston. A fantasy version of your service going via Bradford/ Burnley/ Blackburn would give those towns a proper long distance service (though it's a complete non starter).

 

[HSTEd]

Where are you finding spare 222s though? Where are the paths (e.g. through Manchester)?

I was positing the existence of a renewed Meridian production line as an outgrowth of the proposed electrodieselisation project that would require additional bodyshells to be assembled and fitted out anyway I'm afraid

Well the curent TPE trains all have paths through Manchester Picadilly already (TPE North West running into Manchester Airport), and if the Nottingham-Manchseter portion was to run via Derby it could simply use those paths.
Either way I understand that there are significant numbers of effectively spare paths on the Hope Valley due to freight operators reserving paths and almost never using them.

Question is whether you could reach the through platforms at Picadilly from hope valley in the current timetable, and I'm not as fluent in the layout of the trackwork south of Manchester as I should be.