Nottingham Station now.

[Mugby]

Is anyone on here who uses Nottingham station of the opinion that the remodelling has made any great difference?

Let me describe a sequence from mid-day on Saturday:
Approached on an XC service from Derby, halted at Mansfield Junction. Booked onto Platform 3 but couldn't proceed because a Norwich service needed to go ahead of it and divide. XC service held for about 4 minutes.
The Norwich train couldn't be switched to Pl.1 because there was a Mansfield train waiting to depart.

No great hardship but aren't these the sort of snags which were meant to be eliminated?

Another observation, returning from Skegness on Sunday on a unit which terminated in the bay, Pl.2. I had six minutes to get to the new Pl.4 for a Derby train. Did it easily but no time to spare, others less able would have found it difficult.
Given that some important services now depart from 4, Birmingham and Liverpool for example, Nottingham desperately needs an extra, east end footbridge.

Also, I have to say the glass canopy on Platform 7 is the most pathetic, useless and inadequate protection against the elements I have ever seen, it doesn't even reach the back edge of the platform which remains completely exposed.

Minor criticisms, you may think, but but could they have done better? Any thoughts?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Have the alterations been done in such a way that they are "sparks ready"? Room for electrification gantries etc.

 

[Techniquest]

Oh I am so glad not to be the only one unimpressed with Nottingham's re-model! Why on Earth XC services get dumped onto platform 4 I have no idea, and if it's not there it's always at the east end of the station when you're in a rush!

A couple of western bay platforms would have helped no end, as would a footbridge linking the eastern end platforms all up. It's a long way from the east end of platform 7 to platform 4, even on a fast march it would take me 3.5-4 minutes, and that's assuming no norms and huge cases are in the way. God help you if you want to get a coffee from Costa on the way, it's a long trek to the barriers, to be confronted with less than pleasant EMT staff, to then get looks of disbelief from the same staff when you come back and struggling to juggle bags, a hot coffee and tickets, to then march all the way down the long platform...

No I don't have any issues whatsoever with Nottingham...

 

[edwin_m]

Theres space between the station and the car park to add a platform 8, but I think they should have introduced that with the re-modelling and lifted the car park enough to make space for at least one more platform. No other way to make more west-facing bays without demolishing most of it, or splitting another long platform which probably wouldn't help in the long term.

One thing that has helped is the bi-directional running to Mansfield Junction. This sometimes allows trains to and from London to arrive and depart simultaneously with right-hand running.

 

[Tomnick]

In my experience, if the xx:25 arrival from Liverpool is delayed sufficiently that the XC unit would otherwise be held outside the station, the xx:26 Worksop has generally departed so there's no problem with doing exactly as you suggest and dropping it into 1 on top of the Lincoln that's already in there - it's a pretty common move. I don't think the remodelling has really changed much there, other than tending to concentrate departures towards Mansfield on the north side of the station (previously, they had to depart on the Up Fast anyway) to use the layout more efficiently.

P4 is a bit of a trek, especially from the east end of the opposite island, but it does seem to be a sensible compromise to allow the xx:05 Londons to occupy what'd otherwise be a through platform for most of the day. There's not a huge number of long distance trains off there though normally, and certainly not many XC services. There are far fewer shunts via the east end (to clear a platform) than there used to be, as a result of the extra platform capacity.

There is much less flexibility in the station throat (at both ends) than there used to be, which does seem to cause a few problems when things are running anything other than perfectly. That's offset partly by the separation of trains to/from Beeston and to/from Radford Jn between the station and Mansfield Jn though, whereas previously (as above) anything towards Radford had to depart on the Up side to then cross most of the layout at Mansfield Jn.

Platform 7, though, really is quite a depressing place on a wet and windy day!

 

[edwin_m]

P4 is a bit of a trek, especially from the east end of the opposite island, but it does seem to be a sensible compromise to allow the xx:05 Londons to occupy what'd otherwise be a through platform for most of the day. There's not a huge number of long distance trains off there though normally, and certainly not many XC services. There are far fewer shunts via the east end (to clear a platform) than there used to be, as a result of the extra platform capacity.

This only works of course when the xx05 is a 4-car or a 5-car. The peak workings are pairs of Meridians so have to use a different platform. I think this is why the London HST uses 7 instead of 6 in the evenings, which is a benefit to the large number of people heading for the car park.

One think they could probably sort out relatively easily would be to move the HST stop on platform 6 a few metres one way or the other, as the western power car currently stops exactly under the tram bridge so its emissions are spread around the station or collect as soot on the underside of the bridge. I've never seen another unit stacked west of an HST so stopping a bit further west ought to be OK.

There is much less flexibility in the station throat (at both ends) than there used to be, which does seem to cause a few problems when things are running anything other than perfectly. That's offset partly by the separation of trains to/from Beeston and to/from Radford Jn between the station and Mansfield Jn though, whereas previously (as above) anything towards Radford had to depart on the Up side to then cross most of the layout at Mansfield Jn.

Is the western throat really more constrained? All four tracks are now bi-directional and platform 6 (now 7) couldn't be accessed from the west except by running "bang road" from beyond Lenton Triangle which wasn't really possible in practice.

Platform 7, though, really is quite a depressing place on a wet and windy day!

Couldn't agree more - that canopy is only any use on the rare occasions when the rain is vertical. Even the pervious large bus shelter was better.

 

[HSTEd]

The choice to step out the platform in the manner they did is rather odd in my opinion.
They have this absolutely enormous gantry to get a signal into the correct position for the new platform, when they could have stepped it out another couple of feet into the unoccupied space that used to be the other through line, so they could have had a short pole mast instead.

But otherwise it doesn't appear to have significantly improved anything, trains from the east still get held and still get dumped into platforms miles from anywhere.
A lot of money expended to no obvious purpose.

 

[Tomnick]

This only works of course when the xx05 is a 4-car or a 5-car. The peak workings are pairs of Meridians so have to use a different platform. I think this is why the London HST uses 7 instead of 6 in the evenings, which is a benefit to the large number of people heading for the car park.

I'd guess so - it's when the evening peak services start to arrive from London that the pattern starts to change. It does, of course, free up 5 for other terminating services to use, but there are a couple of extra shunts via the east end too as a consequence.

One think they could probably sort out relatively easily would be to move the HST stop on platform 6 a few metres one way or the other, as the western power car currently stops exactly under the tram bridge so its emissions are spread around the station or collect as soot on the underside of the bridge. I've never seen another unit stacked west of an HST so stopping a bit further west ought to be OK.

I doubt it'd ever be possible to drop anything on top of an HST in 6 anyway, as it'd always be occupying the western-most track circuit in the platform no matter where it stops (which, I understand, stops even a calling-on route being set from that end into the platform). In the absence of anything else, they usually just draw up to the signal, so probably easily rectified!

Is the western throat really more constrained? All four tracks are now bi-directional and platform 6 (now 7) couldn't be accessed from the west except by running "bang road" from beyond Lenton Triangle which wasn't really possible in practice.

It just feels less flexible in terms of parallel moves, in particular to and from lines C and D (in broad terms, the pair of lines to/from Beeston direction) where a departure from any platform other than 7 towards line D conflicts with any arrival from C. Down trains can, of course, be crossed over to line B at Mansfield Jn instead, but that might put them in conflict with a Mansfield/Erewash departure. There's no doubt that the new layout's far, far better for the Radford direction though.

The same applies at the east end, where parallel moves used to be possible in/out any of the old 4, 5 and 6. It's not really a problem for most of the day though.


But otherwise it doesn't appear to have significantly improved anything, trains from the east still get held and still get dumped into platforms miles from anywhere.
A lot of money expended to no obvious purpose.

It's not all that common for trains from the east to be held outside the station. Taking away some of the shunts via the east end, at least, removes some of the conflicts in the station throat too.

 

[Steveoh]

I'm not sure I appreciated the irony of reading this thread whilst held outside the station throat before being deposited a few minutes late on platform 4.

I'm not convinced the station Concorse changes have been for the better either.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

It's not all that common for trains from the east to be held outside the station. Taking away some of the shunts via the east end, at least, removes some of the conflicts in the station throat too.

I was disappointed with the changes - whenever I come back from Norwich in the Evening I think yes we are early I'll make the -.30 tram to catch my -.37 bus on Parliament Street. We ALWAYS seem to sit outside the station and I always miss the -.30 tram.
Haven't noticed being held coming back from Lincoln so that has obviously improved on that run though....

 

[Ianno87]

The basic problem is that the timetable hasn't fundamentally changed in structure from the old layout, so that trains still present from the various routes into Nottingham at about the same time they always have, so one gets the same sort of conflicts at the station in spite of the segregation of Mansfield Junction.

I would expect the timetable to be designed to operate much better once (for example) the MML timetable is "properly" recast for Thameslink & Electrification, Derby is remodelled (improving the XC paths), etc...

 

[Mugby]

I visited Nottingham today for the first time since the 'My local' stores went bust. I noticed that the shop on the concourse has been abandoned.

It leaves the revamped concourse looking a bit forlorn, who will take this retail unit on? Tesco are across the road and Sainsburys just down the street and both of their stores are larger units than the station shop so I don't imagine they would re-locate.

It's certainly not generating any rental income at the moment though!

 

[Kite159]

I visited Nottingham today for the first time since the 'My local' stores went bust. I noticed that the shop on the concourse has been abandoned.

It leaves the revamped concourse looking a bit forlorn, who will take this retail unit on? Tesco are across the road and Sainsburys just down the street and both of their stores are larger units than the station shop so I don't imagine they would re-locate.

It's certainly not generating any rental income at the moment though!

I was in Nottingham the week "my local" went under and noticed by the Sunday it was pretty much bare inside, sad really. Can't really see another shop going in there due to the competition, maybe a hot food place or maybe even a small Boots

 

[Mitch in Notts]

According to the Nottingham Post, one day this week, the Co-op already have the station forecourt store.

 

[Mugby]

According to the Nottingham Post, one day this week, the Co-op already have the station forecourt store.

Oh well that's ok then, just a shame the Co-op are the most expensive of the lot!

 

[Kite159]

Oh well that's ok then, just a shame the Co-op are the most expensive of the lot!

Not for students (that 10% NUS discount comes in handy)

 

[edwin_m]

The "mini-supermarket" in the station really needs to be a M&S or a Waitrose to be distinctive enough from Tesco and Sainsburys nearby. Morrisons just offered more of the same and was no doubt paying more rent due to "prime" location and I reckon MyLocal was doomed from the start, not having the purchasing power of Morrisons. I can't see Co-Operative doing very well there either for the same reasons.

Leaving that one aside, one of the four white kiosks in the outer concourse (former taxi rank) has never been filled and I think there is another empty retail unit just beyond the ticket office. Last time I counted there were seven places to buy a coffee within the station boundary and probably five more on the walk from there to Canal Street, so it really needs something a bit different but it's probably too far out of town to attract business from anyone who doesn't need the station for other reasons.

 

[Hadders]

The "mini-supermarket" in the station really needs to be a M&S or a Waitrose to be distinctive enough from Tesco and Sainsburys nearby. Morrisons just offered more of the same and was no doubt paying more rent due to "prime" location and I reckon MyLocal was doomed from the start, not having the purchasing power of Morrisons. I can't see Co-Operative doing very well there either for the same reasons.

Leaving that one aside, one of the four white kiosks in the outer concourse (former taxi rank) has never been filled and I think there is another empty retail unit just beyond the ticket office. Last time I counted there were seven places to buy a coffee within the station boundary and probably five more on the walk from there to Canal Street, so it really needs something a bit different but it's probably too far out of town to attract business from anyone who doesn't need the station for other reasons.

The Co-op is the 5th largest food retailer in the UK and operates over 2,800 stores.

 

[edwin_m]

The Co-op is the 5th largest food retailer in the UK and operates over 2,800 stores.

But both the Co-Op and My Local are/were attempting to offer the same sort of thing as the Tesco immediately opposite and the Sainsburys on the corner of Canal Street. The Co-Op has a bit more purchasing power than My Local had, but is a lot smaller than Tesco or Sainsburys.

This morning there was a notice on the door of the My Local saying it was closed and with an arrow pointing to Tesco. The shops at street level in what used to be the Gresham Hotel are now finished, with one being occupied by yet another coffee shop and the other unit (twice as big) still empty.

 

[Hadders]

Don't underestimate the purchasing power of the Co-op. What many people don't realise is that although they're not as big as Tesco or Sainsbury's they are larger than Waitrose, Aldi, Lidl, M&S etc.

They operate more stores than any other retailer in the UK.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Don't underestimate the purchasing power of the Co-op. What many people don't realise is that although they're not as big as Tesco or Sainsbury's they are larger than Waitrose, Aldi, Lidl, M&S etc.

They operate more stores than any other retailer in the UK.

However, M&S and Waitrose are seen to sell a premium product that people will actually go out of their way to go and buy. M&S seems to do extremely well in other large railway stations, so why not here?

 

[HSTEd]

The Co-op organisation is also not in the most healthy financial straits after the disaster caused by the 'crystal methodist'.

 

[Hadders]

The Co-op organisation is also not in the most healthy financial straits after the disaster caused by the 'crystal methodist'.

That was a couple of years ago. They're actually in pretty good shape financially now.

 

[Mugby]

However, M&S and Waitrose are seen to sell a premium product that people will actually go out of their way to go and buy. M&S seems to do extremely well in other large railway stations, so why not here?

That's absolutely true, M&S and Waitrose stock is perhaps 95% their own brand products. The Co-op just buy in most of their stock and sell it at a much higher price than elsewhere. I won't be buying anything there if I can pop across Station Street and get it cheaper at Tesco!

 

[Philip Elliott]

That was a couple of years ago. They're actually in pretty good shape financially now.

The Heart of England co-op have just shut all their non food stores...

 

[Hadders]

The Heart of England co-op have just shut all their non food stores...

Heart of England Co-op is nothing to do with The Co-operative Group. Completely separate organisation.

 

[CockneySparrow]

I visited Nottingham today for the first time since the 'My local' stores went bust. I noticed that the shop on the concourse has been abandoned.

It leaves the revamped concourse looking a bit forlorn, who will take this retail unit on? Tesco are across the road and Sainsburys just down the street and both of their stores are larger units than the station shop so I don't imagine they would re-locate.

It's certainly not generating any rental income at the moment though!

How about Marks and Spencers at BP petrol station prices lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Co-op organisation is also not in the most healthy financial straits after the disaster caused by the 'crystal methodist'.

Depends which Co-op you are talking about, there is no one owner to the Co-op

 

[ashworth]

That's absolutely true, M&S and Waitrose stock is perhaps 95% their own brand products. The Co-op just buy in most of their stock and sell it at a much higher price than elsewhere. I won't be buying anything there if I can pop across Station Street and get it cheaper at Tesco!

I would much rather pay a little bit more at the Co op than give any of my money to Tesco. I know that I am not the only one who feels like this. It will be much handier than having to walk away from the station to reach Sainsburys.

 

[HowardGWR]

Trying to avoid this ridiculous brand discussion, it seems to me that station outlets need to do better on speedy service to beat nearby competition. Typical supermarket checkout queues are anathema to travellers, so perhaps the previous operator did not pay attention to this factor. When house wife/partner/husband rings and says 'pick up a pack of coffee on your way home darling' it will be how quickly this can be achieved that I suspect will get the vote from our commuter.

 

[Steveoh]

I'm not sure the location of the former MyLocal is great. If you are in a car or using the tram or want a taxi then you wouldn't really be going past the store at all. If you're just picking up some coffee or something then if you're going past the MyLocal site, chances are you're going past Tesco and Sainsbury's. What I tended to do was to rush out of the station to see what time my bus was and if I had a bit of time to kill would nip into Sainsbury's.

Perhaps it can become a WH Smiths and move to the location of the ticket office, with the ticket office being where MyLocal was