Nottingham - Norwich. Why no off-peak single ?

[yorksrob]

I was looking on BR fares for this journey and noticed that while there's an off-peak return (£93.50), there seems to be no off-peak single. This leaves the anytime single at a whopping £72.40 !

I'd be interested to know the logic of this as presumably the off-peak period doesn't just appear, Brigadoon style, if one has a return portion.

Is there some logic to this omission, or is it just a ticketing scam ?

 

[Dewedin]

The Anytime Single is substantially cheaper than the Off Peak Return, unlike many journeys where it would be more expensive. This does not appear to be a 'scam', it is just a discount for buying a return.

 

[ChrisC]

Even the off peak return at £93.50 is not cheap. Fares between Nottingham and Norwich have always been high. I can’t understand why it‘s so expensive to travel east from Nottingham in comparison to the Liverpool direction. Nottingham to Norwich is also more expensive than many Nottingham to London fares. Splitting at Peterborough and also sometimes Grantham can reduce the fare by a bit.

 

[Watershed]

Single Leg Pricing hasn't been a "thing" for most British journeys for decades. If anything, singles were historically priced at £1 or 10p less than a return under BR - partly as a revenue protection measure, since it meant ticketless travellers would need to avoid checks on both their outward and return journeys to avoid paying.

With the Anytime Single being around £20 less than the Off-Peak Return, EMR (and their predecessors) have evidently seen no need to introduce a cheaper Off-Peak Single.

Splitting at Grantham and Peterborough reduces the single fare to £56.10, which is still expensive but not quite as bad. The period return fare can be reduced to £71.90 by splitting at Peterborough.

If single leg pricing ever comes to this journey, you can expect it to bring hefty accompanying price rises and the likely abolition of period returns - better the devil you know, in my view.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not saying I'd automatically expect an off peak single to be half the price of the off peak return, but I would expect there to be one with a bit of a discount.

I note that we had off peak single leg pricing on the North ECML, which was marketed as the best thing since sliced bread - until it wasn't and was got rid of.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm not saying I'd automatically expect an off peak single to be half the price of the off peak return, but I would expect there to be one with a bit of a discount.

I note that we had off peak single leg pricing on the North ECML, which was marketed as the best thing since sliced bread - until it wasn't and was got rid of.

Indeed but they were only £1 less than the return

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed but they were only £1 less than the return

Which is still better than the shambles they have now.

However, this doesn't alter the fact that £72, for a one way trip on a frankly, not very premium, winding regional service, consisting of often crowded DMU's, strikes me as poor value for money.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2025 ==

Splitting at Grantham and Peterborough reduces the single fare to £56.10, which is still expensive but not quite as bad. The period return fare can be reduced to £71.90 by splitting at Peterborough.

If single leg pricing ever comes to this journey, you can expect it to bring hefty accompanying price rises and the likely abolition of period returns - better the devil you know, in my view.

That's a potentially useful split in future.

I'm coming to believe that the only meaningful form or fares reform would be a national railcard, because anything else is too easy to manipulate for higher fares.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Sorry I'm struggling with the thought that an Anytime Single at £92.50 would be better than £72.50

 

[Timbo999]

When you buy a one way ticket from A to B the seat has to return to A, even if you don't and no one else is going one way B to A at the relevant time. This is why single fares are often expensive relative to round trip - you're contributing to the cost of getting those empty seats back to origin. There are relatively few routes where the demand is evenly balanced both ways all day - such routes would not need off peak fares anyway!

 

[saismee]

I think a bit part of it is to reduce the amount of people travelling east on the entirely under-sized 158/170. Can you imagine the overcrowding if it was even 20 pounds cheaper?

 

[yorkie]

Which is still better than the shambles they have now.

However, this doesn't alter the fact that £72, for a one way trip on a frankly, not very premium, winding regional service, consisting of often crowded DMU's, strikes me as poor value for money.

People are deliberately being priced off such routes; the Government would prefer people to travel by car than spend the money required to provide extra carriages on the train service.

That's a potentially useful split in future.

The forum's site does this automatically.

I'm coming to believe that the only meaningful form or fares reform would be a national railcard, because anything else is too easy to manipulate for higher fares.

That's for a separate thread.

 

[scrapy]

When you buy a one way ticket from A to B the seat has to return to A, even if you don't and no one else is going one way B to A at the relevant time. This is why single fares are often expensive relative to round trip - you're contributing to the cost of getting those empty seats back to origin. There are relatively few routes where the demand is evenly balanced both ways all day - such routes would not need off peak fares anyway!

Unless you return on the same train, which most people dont, that isnt really true. If you buy a return to go somewhere for a few hours, the train doesnt usually sit there wait and take you back. It will do several other journeys and your return most of the time isnt on the same unit. So on a return trip you would still need to contribute to getting those seats back to their origin if noone is doing the opposite return trip, and also contribute to them coming back to collect you later.

 

[blimmo]

So on a return trip you would still need to contribute to getting those seats back to their origin if noone is doing the opposite return trip, and also contribute to them coming back to collect you later.

Absolutely, trains out of London in the morning and into London in the evening are usually empty (hence the restrictions on off peak tickets). Returns being offered at a discount because they cost less to provide is not real.

 

[yorksrob]

The forum's site does this automatically.

Yes, I should have tried that.

 

[dosxuk]

Back in the Central Trains days they made a big thing about how they were going to have to increase the prices on the eastern side of Norwich - Liverpool simply because of a lack of capacity. The prices rose significantly in a short amount of time, and they've never come back down again. It was at this point that it became often cheaper to go via London than direct.

 

[yorksrob]

Back in the Central Trains days they made a big thing about how they were going to have to increase the prices on the eastern side of Norwich - Liverpool simply because of a lack of capacity. The prices rose significantly in a short amount of time, and they've never come back down again. It was at this point that it became often cheaper to go via London than direct.

Considering that Central Trains ended almost twenty years ago, its a pretty sad indictment of the way the railway's been run that they still haven't solved the capacity issue.