Nottingham City Transport

[Ginga]

Nct set to make redundancy.s.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Nct set to make redundancy.s.

Its interesting that for the first time in a long time they've recently stopped driver recruitment. Presumably linked so as to offer any vacancies to internal candidates at risk of redundancy.

 

[Trainman40083]

Correct me if I am wrong. But wasn't Nottingham City Transport one of the operators best recovering post COVID? Where might that leave others?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Nct set to make redundancy.s.

With respect, it doesn't say anything about redundancies. That's a leap. They're commencing talks with the unions about the recovery plans for the business. That may well mean redundancies, but it could equally mean recruitment freezes, simply not replacing employees who leave/ retire, reducing the number of hours available etc.

A potential reduction in staffing can be achieved in a number of ways.

In any event - the issue is this £2/ £3 bus fare cap - it's a sticking plaster hiding serious commercial issues within the bus industry. Going from £2 to £3 has presumably been unaffordable for some passengers, particularly in parts of Nottingham which are very poor economically or have high levels of unproductive and transient immigrant communities. Students are probably also problematic in that they are not consistently present and are generally offered reduced fares anyway.

This is likely compounded by the fact there is a reasonable amount of competition - either from other bus operators, trams and trains.

 

[Trainman40083]

With respect, it doesn't say anything about redundancies. That's a leap. They're commencing talks with the unions about the recovery plans for the business. That may well mean redundancies, but it could equally mean recruitment freezes, simply not replacing employees who leave/ retire, reducing the number of hours available etc.

A potential reduction in staffing can be achieved in a number of ways.

In any event - the issue is this £2/ £3 bus fare cap - it's a sticking plaster hiding serious commercial issues within the bus industry. Going from £2 to £3 has presumably been unaffordable for some passengers, particularly in parts of Nottingham which are very poor economically or have high levels of unproductive and transient immigrant communities. Students are probably also problematic in that they are not consistently present and are generally offered reduced fares anyway.

This is likely compounded by the fact there is a reasonable amount of competition - either from other bus operators, trams and trains.

I'd suggest there is also far more non public transport competition than there was before COVID. E-scooters , electric bikes, internet shopping, including home delivery of food, local shopping, Uber Eats, Deliveroo , taxis where you can get a cab on an app. You could even say, other sectors have upped their game.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I'd suggest there is also far more non public transport competition than there was before COVID. E-scooters , electric bikes, internet shopping, including home delivery of food, local shopping, Uber Eats, Deliveroo , taxis where you can get a cab on an app. You could even say, other sectors have upped their game.

This is correct too, although causes its own trouble in Nottingham like in other cities where they are regularly found littering the streets and restaurants!

They really do need to be cracked down on hard - especially as they are clearly affecting our economy.

 

[Simon75]

Correct me if I am wrong. But wasn't Nottingham City Transport one of the operators best recovering post COVID? Where might that leave others?

They closed Gotham garage in March 2021, to reduce costs (not sure what's happened to the site )

 

[Simon75]

Also don't Trandev have a share, being a minority shareholder ?

 

[callum3490]

It will be interesting to see how, if any redundancies/cuts are made this will affect services. It would be a struggle to cut driver hours without cutting route frequencies at the least.

Theres no doubt that the price of gas has increased substantially and will no doubt be affecting their margins massively given the size of the biogas fleet.

As much as I dislike this government it doesn’t appear that the fare price cap can be solely to blame for their problems

 

[Andy Pacer]

It will be interesting to see how, if any redundancies/cuts are made this will affect services. It would be a struggle to cut driver hours without cutting route frequencies at the least.

Theres no doubt that the price of gas has increased substantially and will no doubt be affecting their margins massively given the size of the biogas fleet.

As much as I dislike this government it doesn’t appear that the fare price cap can be solely to blame for their problems

In my experience you're right, there's not much you can do to cut hours without cutting services. The planned frequency reduction on 35/36 next month was quite surprising, but perhaps connected with this. With any reduction you'll always lose some more custom too so its easy to fall into a death by a thousand cuts situation.
Their labour agreement is already quite tight so there's not much to be gained/negotiated there, they do get paid breaks (but not on all duties despite what it says on their recruitment advertising) but the actual rates are lower than others in the East Midlands.

The fare cap is an interesting point, I wonder what their shadow fares are (ie whether without a cap they would be it excess of £3).

 

[MCR247]

The stuff about the fare cap doesn’t really surprise me really. At £2 if I was planning on doing only 2 journeys that day I’d get tap on each time and then if I ended up doing a third trip I’d hit the cap somewhere. Now, I’m almost always using bulk bought app based 24 hour all day tickets as singles no longer really make sense value for money-wise. On the rare occasions I’m only expecting to get the bus somewhere one way I might buy a single but that’s relatively rare for me

 

[Andy Pacer]

The stuff about the fare cap doesn’t really surprise me really. At £2 if I was planning on doing only 2 journeys that day I’d get tap on each time and then if I ended up doing a third trip I’d hit the cap somewhere. Now, I’m almost always using bulk bought app based 24 hour all day tickets as singles no longer really make sense value for money-wise. On the rare occasions I’m only expecting to get the bus somewhere one way I might buy a single but that’s relatively rare for me

But, again, without the fare cap customers would be even worse off.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

With respect, it doesn't say anything about redundancies. That's a leap.

It says "a potential reduction in staffing levels" and that they're consulting with the trade unions. Not that much of a leap but that there may be changes to job roles and redeployment.

They really do need to be cracked down on hard - especially as they are clearly affecting our economy.

What are you suggesting? That you ban cycling, or fast food delivery?

 

[Teapot42]

But, again, without the fare cap customers would be even worse off.

Isn't the point though how much revenue the operator gets for the same customer spend?

A day/period ticket is a fixed sum, while a capped single will be 'topped up' (for want of a more accurate term).

A great fairly local example would be the X17. You can get from Chesterfield to Barnsley on a £6.50 silver dayrider, but two capped singles would be £6. I'm sure the operator would get more from the two singles, but a passenger might decide to buy the day ticket in case they want to hop on a bus for a couple of stops somewhere else.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Isn't the point though how much revenue the operator gets for the same customer spend?

Indeed, but without the £3 cap the cost to be paid by the customer may be greater and therefore even less attractive.

 

[tram21]

Even without the cap, A single on NCT is £3 and a day ticket is £5.50

 

[Andy Pacer]

But what would it be without the cap?

 

[MCR247]

But, again, without the fare cap customers would be even worse off.

I think you missed my point. I’m not slating the fare cap, I’m talking about how the effects of the fare cap vary by operator due to the relative difference in costs between singles and all day tickets. The fact is, with an all day ticket less than 2 fare capped singles puts them in a different position to say Trent Barton where a zigzag is over £8.

In fact I’m not even talking about the impact on passengers or whether they’d be worse off, I’m talking about the impacts to the operator so I’m not sure what the fare cap defence is in aid of and whether it’s even particularly relevant repeating the same thing over and over again…

 

[tram21]

But what would it be without the cap?

£3, sorry that's what I meant

 

[Trainman40083]

I think you missed my point. I’m not slating the fare cap, I’m talking about how the effects of the fare cap vary by operator due to the relative difference in costs between singles and all day tickets. The fact is, with an all day ticket less than 2 fare capped singles puts them in a different position to say Trent Barton where a zigzag is over £8.

In fact I’m not even talking about the impact on passengers or whether they’d be worse off, I’m talking about the impacts to the operator so I’m not sure what the fare cap defence is in aid of and whether it’s even particularly relevant repeating the same thing over and over again…

I guess if you have a day ticket less than the price of two x £3 singles, it ensures the passenger uses your bus rather than Trentbarton.

 

[kevjs]

I guess if you have a day ticket less than the price of two x £3 singles, it ensures the passenger uses your bus rather than Trentbarton.

And that £5.50 is just 10p cheaper than 2 Trent Barton singles (£2.80 each if you tap off) in the city area, so no scope to put it up without making Trent Barton cheaper for a return trip.

Although at the moment (summer holidays) NCT Singles are 2.50.

 

[MEC]

According to EMCCA documents Nottingham city transport is set to receive 19 electric double decker buses

 

[liamf656]

According to EMCCA documents Nottingham city transport is set to receive 19 electric double decker buses

Please can you provide a link?

 

[Aethonatic]

Please can you provide a link?

EMCCA put out a "EMCCA's 2025-2026 BSIP Delivery Plan" spreadsheet that details NCT receiving these double deckers under row 38.

 

[tram21]

EMCCA put out a "EMCCA's 2025-2026 BSIP Delivery Plan" spreadsheet that details NCT receiving these double deckers under row 38.

It does look like that's the case! Very good news!

 

[Trainman40083]

EMCCA put out a "EMCCA's 2025-2026 BSIP Delivery Plan" spreadsheet that details NCT receiving these double deckers under row 38.

I noticed Derby under line 37

 

[MCR247]

I wonder which routes will get these. I’d imagine the electric DDs will be Trent Bridge based, so there could be a route or two switching depots

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I wonder which routes will get these. I’d imagine the electric DDs will be Trent Bridge based, so there could be a route or two switching depots

It is clear that Parliament Street depot will begin electrification for this - it's even mentioned in the detail.

 

[MEC]

I wonder which routes will get these. I’d imagine the electric DDs will be Trent Bridge based, so there could be a route or two switching depots

I imagine routes with older e400s in service as the oldest biogas buses still have a few years left before NCT want to replace

 

[edwin_m]

I imagine routes with older e400s in service as the oldest biogas buses still have a few years left before NCT want to replace

Or will they replace some biogas that then get cascaded down to replace e400s on some of the less front-line routes?