edwin_m
Veteran Member
Isn't it supposed to cap at the day ticket fare for the operator(s) used? This will be really helpful, at least it will if it's the NCT Easyrider Anytime bulk buy fare of about £2.21, not the cash day ticket at £3.50.
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Nottingham 'Bus War'
- Thread starter trentside
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Isn't it supposed to cap at the day ticket fare for the operator(s) used? This will be really helpful, at least it will if it's the NCT Easyrider Anytime bulk buy fare of about £2.21, not the cash day ticket at £3.50.
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R
RailUK Forums
Sounds like it, apart from one key difference...
On the Kangaroo City Card you pay a flat rate per day £4.50 even if you only use it for a single trip.
With the Robin Hood Card you PAYG - i.e. you make a single NCT trip, you pay £2. You make a trip on NCT within Clifton then a regular NCT journey you pay £3 (£1 + £2), You make two NCT trips you pay the NCT daily fare (£3.50). You make a Trent Barton £2 trip and NCT £2 trip you pay £4. You make a Tram journey, NCT £2 trip, and Trent Barton £2 trip you pay for a Kangaroo (£4.50). Hopefully there will be a discount like with Oyster.
The D2N2 proposals make it look like this card will be accepted across Nottinghamshire, Nottingham, Derby, and Derbyshire in due course (in which case the Kangaroo name would be better than the Robin Hood - of course the Robin Hood Card could be a working title and the Post have got it wrong...), and hopefully like the London Oyster this will lead the way for Contactless payments on all Public Transport across Notts+Derbys.
Until such time hopefully, it can be added to one of the existing ITSO cards I already have (i.e. EMT Stagecoach Smart and City Card) rather than becoming the fourth contactless Public Transport card in my wallet.
A countywide smartcard with a daily cap like Oyster, that could be used on all buses throughout the county, and not just the city, would be fantastic. However, a good start would be for all operators to agree on a joint fixed priced paper ticket as is available throughout many counties in England.
When I have been away on holiday I have regularly found this type of ticket available even in rural county areas and not just cities. The PTE type tickets in urban areas like South and West Yorkshire, West Midlands, Merseyside, Greater Manchester are often well publicized but how many people know about some of these paper day tickets that I have used:
Essex Saver - £8 valid on all buses throughout Essex
Interlink Explorer - £8.50 valid on all buses throughout Hertfordshire
Kent Explorer - £7.20 valid on all buses throughout Kent and parts of East Sussex.
Discovery - £8.50 valid on all buses throughout Surrey, East and West Sussex and parts of Kent and Hampshire.
North East Explorer - £8.50 valid throughout Northumbria, Durham and parts of North Yorkshire and Cumbria.
All probably too expensive for daily commuting but not as a day ticket for leisure travel. Yet here in Nottinghamshire we can't even get TrentBarton and Stagecoach to accept each others day tickets between Nottingham, Mansfield and Chesterfield on their joint Pronto service.
A multi operator ticket may be great for the City of Nottingham but it is also needed throughout the county especially in Mansfield and Ashfield where journeys often require passengers to use a mixture of TrentBarton and Stagecoach buses. From where I live in central Nottinghamshire before able to widely use Mango or Zigzag I have to use the very slow roundabout, and infrequent, TrentBarton 141 bus to reach Nottingham or Mansfield because they will not accept these tickets on the Pronto bus.
When I have been away on holiday I have regularly found this type of ticket available even in rural county areas and not just cities. The PTE type tickets in urban areas like South and West Yorkshire, West Midlands, Merseyside, Greater Manchester are often well publicized but how many people know about some of these paper day tickets that I have used:
Essex Saver - £8 valid on all buses throughout Essex
Interlink Explorer - £8.50 valid on all buses throughout Hertfordshire
Kent Explorer - £7.20 valid on all buses throughout Kent and parts of East Sussex.
Discovery - £8.50 valid on all buses throughout Surrey, East and West Sussex and parts of Kent and Hampshire.
North East Explorer - £8.50 valid throughout Northumbria, Durham and parts of North Yorkshire and Cumbria.
All probably too expensive for daily commuting but not as a day ticket for leisure travel. Yet here in Nottinghamshire we can't even get TrentBarton and Stagecoach to accept each others day tickets between Nottingham, Mansfield and Chesterfield on their joint Pronto service.
A multi operator ticket may be great for the City of Nottingham but it is also needed throughout the county especially in Mansfield and Ashfield where journeys often require passengers to use a mixture of TrentBarton and Stagecoach buses. From where I live in central Nottinghamshire before able to widely use Mango or Zigzag I have to use the very slow roundabout, and infrequent, TrentBarton 141 bus to reach Nottingham or Mansfield because they will not accept these tickets on the Pronto bus.
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I dont think you can blame the operators - Trent and Stagecoach both sell and accept the Derbyshire Wayfarer (which is exactly what you're after but on the civilised side of the border
) - it's more expensive than the examples you quote but includes travel by train and some destinations outside the county, like Sheffield and Burton
I dont think you can blame the operators - Trent and Stagecoach both sell and accept the Derbyshire Wayfarer (which is exactly what you're after but on the civilised side of the border
Who would you blame for Trent and Stagecoach not accepting each other's (or even their own!) day tickets or Trent's saver tickets on Pronto?
nottinghamcity
Member
Overheard a TB driver this morning say there is a "direct" Nottingham Skylink starting in January. Totally unconfirmed rumour!
Fair point! The Derbyshire Wayfarer was an example that both companies do participate in a shared ticket scheme, but it's a completely different situation so not really relevant.
I'll get my coat
Mitch in Notts
Member
I'd be quite amazed if that happens. Considering that NCT couldn't make it pay despite them being a well known name, and the flop that Premiere had, I really can't see how Trent can make a go of it unless they extend the route beyond EMA to another big catchment & I don't believe that exists around EMA!
Robertj21a
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Derby ?
I can understand smart cards like Mango not being able to be used on Pronto because Stagecoach and TrentBartons machines would not be able to recognise the other operators cards. However, I cannot see why they can't accept paper day tickets like Zigzag or Explorer on Pronto. It is one of the main bus services in the county and not accepting multi journey tickets is inconvenient and results in expensive journeys. Passengers of both operators, using more than one bus to complete a journey, have to buy an additional ticket to travel on Pronto as part of a longer journey.
They do, but I wonder if it's partly because of the scheme operating before bus privatisation or if we just need a sponsor (such as the County Council) to come up with a scheme and invite the bus companies to participate. Some bus companies may worry that if they set up one if may be seen as ant-competitive.
Mind you, I used to have a Barton saver ticket that wasn't valid on Trent, even 7 years after the two were under common ownership (in 1996).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EMA is already linked to Derby by Skylink Derby. There's already 3 TB routes between Nottingham and Derby. That might be useful for a few people in Clifton going to Derby but would it be quicker than changing to the Red Arrow in Nottingham?
nottinghamcity
Member
I've been musing over these points myself. The only things I can see are different are:
The old NCT service was a tendered service for Nottingham city council. It was withdrawn when TB started their route. The reason given at the time was illegal competition against a commercial service. This was questioned at the time since it was an entirely different route, serving a very different market, and was likely a political move.
Premiere got a lot of things wrong, and paid the price. Red flyer was a pretty ropey service, didn't need to undercut TB's fares and didn't need to be 24/7.
Virtually no one uses Skylink Nottingham to travel from Nottingham to the airport, most flows are Nottingham - sawley / m&s then Castle Donington - airport. The direct market is pretty much unserved. I'm not sure how big it is though.
The A453 has had a few quid spent on it recently.
Based on these facts I can only see two real possibilities:
One of NCT's Clifton services gets extended, possibly via Gotham, East Leeke and Kegworth, effectively doing the tying up local routes thing. Or
TB ( or someone else) operates a "Skylink express" on the old route, probably focusing on daytime only, commuter market which could pay off.
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Robertj21a
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It doesn't stop Trent adding an EMA-Derby link to support the busy Leicester - Derby Skylink. It could run to a slightly different/faster route and/or replace one of the existing 3 ph. I'm not suggesting it's likely, but no real reason why not.
The biggest thing which has changed since NCT or Premier's service is that the A453 has been widened and the congestion has pretty much vanished. This would serve to massively improve reliability of the route along that route. Whether it could now become profitable or not is a different matter.
With the A453 being finished perhaps time has come to reconsider a link between EMA, EMP, NET Line 2 P& R and the City.
gordonthemoron
Established Member
or perhaps just between EMA, EMP & NET Line 2 P&R?
Absolute chaos in the City Centre tonight. They decided to reduce the width of the road past the cathedral to 1 lane during the evening rush in readiness for a full overnight closure took an hour on the 36 from Victoria centre to Canning Circus. Very poor planning on the night of the Christmas light switch on.
Also noticed TB have given the reason for withdrawn of club class saying there are now plenty of seats at peaks with the increased frequency of the if.
Also noticed TB have given the reason for withdrawn of club class saying there are now plenty of seats at peaks with the increased frequency of the if.
Mitch in Notts
Member
Wasn't that called 'Runway 5' in it's day (didn't it replace the old South Notts 2 in part - ie part of the old Village service). And if I remember correctly it extended occasionally to Melbourne and on Sundays to Castle Donington once the 310 had been withdrawn. Ah memories.....
If you wanted to do something like that alternate journeys extending to Melbourne, Swadlincote & Burton or Coalville, Ashby, Tamworth..... and Birmingham.........
Would have to be extended to the city during the night though. I could see it working but the transfer has to be almost seemless and neither the tram nor the bus can guarantee that. Most of the traffic will be people who work there and timing is very important when you're starting work at say 22.00 hours or 05.00. I think personally that having to change modes could be off putting to many but I'd like to see it tried and be proved wrong.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
If the connections could be made to work, the Airport bus could use the A453 Queens Drive for the quickest route to and from the city centre, and interchange with the tram for people coming from Clifton.
One of the travel twitter feeds I was reading lastnight said they started the works earlier than planned.
The Christmas Lights switch on was a flipping mess, the square is full of stuff so everyone trying to watch was crammed onto the footpaths next to the tram tracks with bouncers having to make everyone squeeze in whenever a tram was approaching (which had there own hi-vis bouncer leading the way at sub walking space). A digger were left in the square blocking the view for many, and to top it all no fireworks this year resulting in the road up towards Feltcher Gate being full of people and a tram pointlessly ringing it's bell with it's high beam lights on and being totally ignored... You can't do events attracting so many people at once, continue to operate the tram through the square, and have the square full of junk all at the same time...
Maybe route branding as X99 with red livery - perhaps even a black roof?
burns20
Member
Didn't Arriva Midlands do an X74 Nottingham to Birmingham must've been about 10 years ago
They did it ran via Clifton, Ashby, Measham, Tamworth., Stoneydelph then via the M42, M6 and A38M think there was about 4 or 5 through journeys with a shorter working it was part of quite a regular Tamworth to Birmingham express. If I remember rightlyloading were fairly light on the Nottingham section. They used East Lancs Scania single deckers.
Mitch in Notts
Member
I went to Birmingham and back on it once. It was very lightly loaded until we got to No Mans Heath (or Seckington??) where we seemed to pick up half the village going to Tamworth. Busier going from Tamworth into Birmingham.
I do think as an inter-town service for Nottingham to Tamworth it is very useful, though would never be subsidised due to crossing county boundaries. Just consider how difficult a bus journey is now from Ashby de la Zouch to Tamworth.....
I do think as an inter-town service for Nottingham to Tamworth it is very useful, though would never be subsidised due to crossing county boundaries. Just consider how difficult a bus journey is now from Ashby de la Zouch to Tamworth.....
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
I won't think about how the population of No Man's Heath relates to the size of a single decker.
Nottingham Skylink seems to have extended to Coalville since I last looked. Doing the Nottingham-Airport section fast via the A453 might make it worthwhile to extend even further west, with the airport acting as a hub for local feeder routes.
Mitch in Notts
Member
Actually I'm not sure now whether it was No Mans Heath or Seckington. It was definitely AFTER Measham & well before Tamworth.....
Mitch in Notts
Member
Never heard of them. But the orignal Kinch bus company ran Nottingham to Ashby to Birmingham Airport to Birmingham at one time. Half hourly in Summer if I remember correctly!
I've noticed a lot more generic vehicles operating services around Beeston/University area. A few plain Trent Bartons in place of indigos, and a number of silver NCT buses in place of the 34/36. I also saw a Navy line bus in place of a Hopper bus as well. Any reasons why there seems to be more in for repaint at the moment, or was I simply not seeing them previously.
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