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Nottingham 'Bus War'

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gnolife

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TB obviously don't care about the Traffic Commissioner or the Traffic Commissioner doesn't care about them because there is no way they hit 95% within 5 minutes late.

They drop buses totally from the timetable if running close to one of the other buses and send the empty bus via a quicker route back to the other terminus in order to get back on time. How can anyone disagree this is unethical?

Their Indigo's run every 5 minutes according to their livery. False advertising should read "upto every 5 minutes".

A legal team prosecution team would have a field day with them.

I don't have a problem with NCT apart from the miserable drivers they are a well oiled machine.

Trent Barton are just rip-off merchants hiding behind pimped out livery and even that is looking very old hat nowadays on many of their buses.

Anyone calling me a troll is either a TB fan boy or an employee. Fact. As is all of the above.

They had a decent service in The Red Arrow but even this has been targeted due to rip-off prices.

There's good reason why they've been taken on twice in recent years by rival companies.

Rip off merchants? Given the pretty massive area that they cover, a 5.00 offpeak/ 8.00 peak day ticket seems pretty reasonably priced.
As to the every 5 minutes claim, I can't comment in the case of the Indigo, but I can draw parallels to several routes in the area that I'm most familiar with, especially the 50, which is advertised as every 10 minutes, but has a nasty habit of turning up in clusters of 3 every half hour. It will inevitably happen with any high frequency route that they will cluster up and
Finally, I sincerely doubt that, unless you are capable of being present at every bus stop that Trent Barton serve at the same time, all the time, then I must express some doubt as to the accuracy of your claim be to knowing that they fall below the 95% within 5 mins mark.

Actually, one further note to make. The comment that I've highlighted in red demonstrates exactly why you are a troll. You seem to make daft comments like that for the sole purpose of provoking a response.
 
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Robertj21a

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TB obviously don't care about the Traffic Commissioner or the Traffic Commissioner doesn't care about them because there is no way they hit 95% within 5 minutes late.

They drop buses totally from the timetable if running close to one of the other buses and send the empty bus via a quicker route back to the other terminus in order to get back on time. How can anyone disagree this is unethical?

Their Indigo's run every 5 minutes according to their livery. False advertising should read "upto every 5 minutes".

A legal team prosecution team would have a field day with them.

I don't have a problem with NCT apart from the miserable drivers they are a well oiled machine.

Trent Barton are just rip-off merchants hiding behind pimped out livery and even that is looking very old hat nowadays on many of their buses.

Anyone calling me a troll is either a TB fan boy or an employee. Fact. As is all of the above.

They had a decent service in The Red Arrow but even this has been targeted due to rip-off prices.

There's good reason why they've been taken on twice in recent years by rival companies.


It's no wonder that people ignore you when you post utter rubbish like this. I'm no great fan of TB/Wellglade but they are certainly better than most other operators.

Don't be surprised if your rather stupid postings are ignored by others.

Robert
.
 

Statto

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It's no wonder that people ignore you when you post utter rubbish like this. I'm no great fan of TB/Wellglade but they are certainly better than most other operators.

Don't be surprised if your rather stupid postings are ignored by others.

Robert
.

Agreed, it's time the MODs ban that FM, i tend to read the thread out of interest, but that FM spoils it with his/her trolling.
 

Deerfold

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TB obviously don't care about the Traffic Commissioner or the Traffic Commissioner doesn't care about them because there is no way they hit 95% within 5 minutes late.

So have you mentioned this to the TC? They're not magic. If you seriously believe this to be the case then mention it. If you haven't you can hardly claim that the TC doesn't care.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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TB obviously don't care about the Traffic Commissioner or the Traffic Commissioner doesn't care about them because there is no way they hit 95% within 5 minutes late.

They drop buses totally from the timetable if running close to one of the other buses and send the empty bus via a quicker route back to the other terminus in order to get back on time. How can anyone disagree this is unethical?

Their Indigo's run every 5 minutes according to their livery. False advertising should read "upto every 5 minutes".

A legal team prosecution team would have a field day with them.

I don't have a problem with NCT apart from the miserable drivers they are a well oiled machine.

Trent Barton are just rip-off merchants hiding behind pimped out livery and even that is looking very old hat nowadays on many of their buses.

Anyone calling me a troll is either a TB fan boy or an employee. Fact. As is all of the above.

They had a decent service in The Red Arrow but even this has been targeted due to rip-off prices.

There's good reason why they've been taken on twice in recent years by rival companies.

What a spud!

"Anyone calling me a troll is either a TB fan boy or an employee. Fact. As is all of the above."

You're a troll. I'm not a TB fan boy. I don't work for them. FACT!
 

gordonthemoron

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TBF, when I used TB in the past, they did seem to be poor with timekeeping within Nottingham although in the sticks they were OK (this was on Radcliffe Line, XPRSS, Cotgrave line, Keyworth line and Indigo). NCT do seem to keep to the timetable better
 

MCR247

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They drop buses totally from the timetable if running close to one of the other buses and send the empty bus via a quicker route back to the other terminus in order to get back on time. How can anyone disagree this is unethical?
Unethical?! Please! Tbh I don't even see a problem with this, and I don't think you would either if you were stood at a bus stop for 35 minutes because all of the buses were stuck in traffic going the other way!
I don't have a problem with NCT apart from the miserable drivers they are a well oiled machine.

Interesting, as NCT also run buses out of service to get them back to time, as do many other operators. NCT will freely admit to this, yet you like NCT?
 

34D

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Rip off merchants? Given the pretty massive area that they cover, a 5.00 offpeak/ 8.00 peak day ticket seems pretty reasonably priced.

This is a very interesting point, and indicative of issues with a lot of operators - For someone who is doing a bus bash (or doing a journey such as Nottingham to Manchester) they are amazing value. For Joe public who wish to travel ten miles into town it is expensive, and doesn't compare favourably with petrol and parking.

You all seem to be being very harsh on that forum member.

On my first (and only) trip with TB, both buses were driven poorly. Let's face it, when First/Arriva/Stagecoach buy them out, everything will change including the silly route numbers such as Mickleover Blue.
 

WillPS

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This is a very interesting point, and indicative of issues with a lot of operators - For someone who is doing a bus bash (or doing a journey such as Nottingham to Manchester) they are amazing value. For Joe public who wish to travel ten miles into town it is expensive, and doesn't compare favourably with petrol and parking.

You all seem to be being very harsh on that forum member.

On my first (and only) trip with TB, both buses were driven poorly. Let's face it, when First/Arriva/Stagecoach buy them out, everything will change including the silly route numbers such as Mickleover Blue.
I'd have expected a slightly more informed view from you!

I think if First, Arriva or Stagecoach were to have bought them out they'd have done so by now. It would be very interesting to review all the past offers.

I also note that in the areas where Stagecoach overlap with Trent (notably Mansfield and Chesterfield) Stagecoach have route names like "The Miller" and "Chesterfield Chief".
 

Statto

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You all seem to be being very harsh on that forum member.

I couldn't disagree more, I'm not opposed to fair criticisms when it's warranted however that FM keeps posting ridiculous comments which are then torn apart by other FMs who aren't as objectionable as that FM,
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I couldn't disagree more, I'm not opposed to fair criticisms when it's warranted however that FM keeps posting ridiculous comments which are then torn apart by other FMs who aren't as objectionable as that FM,

With you on that Statto. I'm quite happy to have a reasoned debate with anyone on this forum. However, with ARedFlyer, it's not a discussion based on objective and balanced points.

Instead, you get a poisonous Comical Ali diatribe that, as has been highlighted before, is biased and factually incorrect. Or in other words, trolling.

I'm no apologist for Wellglade, and I'm sure they do have the odd surly driver or vehicle failure and I don't agree with everything they do. However, describing them as "a vile company" and journeys as "horrific" is, at best hyperbole. At worst, it's well nigh slanderous; hence you have to laugh when ARF talks about legal challenges to TB's advertising.

When I lived in Burton on Trent (albeit some years back), the difference between TB's Villager services and the lacklustre Arriva offerings was cosmic. Has TB's halo slipped? Perhaps a little, and other operators have also improved (often adopting the initiatives that TB pioneered). However, ARF is nothing more than an embittered and tragic soul - why, lord knows?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'd have expected a slightly more informed view from you!

I think if First, Arriva or Stagecoach were to have bought them out they'd have done so by now. It would be very interesting to review all the past offers.

I also note that in the areas where Stagecoach overlap with Trent (notably Mansfield and Chesterfield) Stagecoach have route names like "The Miller" and "Chesterfield Chief".

Or indeed in Devon where the Torquay to Plymouth or Dartmouth is just called "GOLD", irrespective of the destination!
 

WillPS

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May I cordially suggest that everyone just stops responding to ARedFlyer; they're clearly a windup.
 

harry42

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I couldn't disagree more, I'm not opposed to fair criticisms when it's warranted however that FM keeps posting ridiculous comments which are then torn apart by other FMs who aren't as objectionable as that FM,

Out of interest, what does FM mean??!!

Lets put it this way: TB (and indeed Kinchbus, I couldn't comment on TM Travel,) provide me a frequent service with a modern bus and friendly drivers with cheap fares.

Yes, I live right on the boarder of the city area and child fare into town is 85p (what-20 min journey) and adult £1.70

There are live departure boards at stops, Facebook and twitter is constantly updated and the mobile website works fantastically!

And with a MANGO, that is taken down further.

I am not a 'fan boy' but they are the '*good* bus company.' Where I am sometimes though, both Yourbus and Trent Barton serve the same stop into Nottingham and I will get which ever comes first. I hold both a genie and a mango! Both are comfortable, both friendly drivers, both new-ish buses.

NCT, on the other hand, I do have a problem with their drivers but other than that....Oh and there £4 family rider at weekends and school holidays is really food value.

So...my 'view.' on operations.

Oh and yes...be grateful the big 3 DONT run trent barton!!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't agree with everything they do. !


Would I be able to enquire what these things are? I am just interested in other peopes views!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
May I cordially suggest that everyone just stops responding to ARedFlyer; they're clearly a windup.

Their signature says it all...
 
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G0ORC

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TB obviously don't care about the Traffic Commissioner or the Traffic Commissioner doesn't care about them because there is no way they hit 95% within 5 minutes late.

They drop buses totally from the timetable if running close to one of the other buses and send the empty bus via a quicker route back to the other terminus in order to get back on time. How can anyone disagree this is unethical?

Their Indigo's run every 5 minutes according to their livery. False advertising should read "upto every 5 minutes".

A legal team prosecution team would have a field day with them.

I don't have a problem with NCT apart from the miserable drivers they are a well oiled machine.

Trent Barton are just rip-off merchants hiding behind pimped out livery and even that is looking very old hat nowadays on many of their buses.

Anyone calling me a troll is either a TB fan boy or an employee. Fact. As is all of the above.

They had a decent service in The Red Arrow but even this has been targeted due to rip-off prices.

There's good reason why they've been taken on twice in recent years by rival companies.

Erm... I don't understand - could you tell me what a "fanboy" is? You seem to know as you use that word ad nauseum in your many posts but I don't know what it means. I've looked it up but its not in my OED.

If it means that after 40 years of experience in the public transport industry (no, not with TB or any of its subsidiaries) then I appreciate a quality service with the full operational knowledge of what goes into making it that, then yes I'm one.

I'll take your points one by one...

They drop buses totally from the timetable if running close to one of the other buses and send the empty bus via a quicker route back to the other terminus in order to get back on time. How can anyone disagree this is unethical?

Unethical - I'm not sure what ethics have to do with it but ignoring that, yes TB do this, as do Arriva Derby, NCT and all large volume operators.

TB are amongst the most proactive operators in trying to minimise the effects of road traffic delays. What should they do on a route, say like the sixes - where if there is disruption on the A6 additional vehicles are put into the circuit, some are turned around short at Belper and an attempt to maintain some sort of service is made. How many other operators do you know who do this? To my knowledge and experience (which I suspect is somewhat longer and wider than than yours) very few. Its for reasons like this that they have so many admirers from within and outside of the transport industry. So, if you don't like what operators do in these circumstances I'd like to hear your views on what they should be doing to minimise disruption which is usually outside of their control. You seem to have lots of ideas.

Their Indigo's run every 5 minutes according to their livery. False advertising should read "up to every 5 minutes! A legal team prosecution team would have a field day with them.

Again it appears your lack of knowledge of the English language is letting you down - what is the difference between every 5 minutes and "up to" every 5 minutes? To me "up to every 5 minutes" is better than "every 5 minutes" which I'm sure you didn't mean - perhaps you would tell us what exactly you do mean?

As for the "legal team" bit, then again, you will find other people know a little more about what is legal and what isn't than you appear to. Every other operator, including your beloved but now defunct "Premiere" - does/did the same and nobody has ever taken any operator to court - perhaps there is a reason for this but you could always be the first to try.

I don't have a problem with NCT apart from the miserable drivers they are a well oiled machine.

Living outside of Nottingham I don't use NCT and can't comment on their drivers' demeanour. Around this area Arriva Derby aren't well known for the cheerfulness of their drivers but, as long as they can get me safely from A to B then I'll put up with that. The one thing I can say is that almost without exception TBs drivers are amongst the best in the industry in their customer focus and driving skill. The awards they get nationally from their peers recognise that.

Trent Barton are just rip-off merchants hiding behind pimped out livery and even that is looking very old hat nowadays on many of their buses.

What does "pimped out" mean? Again I don't know what you are trying to say. If you could use proper English then we'd all have some idea what you were on about.

£5 for unlimited daily travel on TB services must be one of the best value offers around. Mango (25%) off, student offers, "zig-zag play" offers and lots more. NCT do similar offers I understand. Walk up fares are, mile for mile, no more expensive than any other large volume operator like Arriva, Stagecoach and First Group. If they are ripping the public off, then people would have deserted them in droves as soon as someone else offered a cheaper service. To anyone with two eyes, that clearly hasn't happened.

Anyone calling me a troll is either a TB fan boy or an employee. Fact. As is all of the above.

Again, your English language skills need some improvement - aside from the fact that I don't know what a "fanboy" is, you state that something that is your opinion is a fact when clearly its isn't. It isn't in my case - and of what relevance is "as is all of the above" - I don't understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps you would like to try and spell it out in clearer English.

They had a decent service in The Red Arrow but even this has been targeted due to rip-off prices.

Targeted yes, for being successful. Targeted by a predatory company who, to use your phrase, are clearly "unethical". My take on the current situation is that YourBus don't want to put any money into building a service up, as TB have done with nearly all of their routes, including RA, but are trying (very unsuccessfully it appears to me) to cream off TB's profit margin. They are not interested in providing a service (their operation virtually shuts down at 1900 in the evening) but just in making a quick buck. If anything is unethical, this is, but its the competitive environment that is the bus industry these days.

TB's response to the YourBus challenge has been very positive, with fare offers, additional services and routes which can only be good for the travelling public. It is the travelling public who will choose which one they like and who will sink and who will swim.

It is obvious to me which one the public are choosing at the moment - in the long term we shall have to wait and see but I'm reasonably certain how all of this will end. The only questions surround how long it will take for the money to run out -and I guess no-one outside of the involved parties themselves know the answer to that.

I don't know anything about you Mr. RedFlyer, but you give me the impression of someone with a grudge. Did you work for a bus company, TB perhaps, and couldn't make the grade, or were you sacked?

Perhaps you worked for Premiere and lost your job, in which case I feel sorry for you - but I'm sure there are lots of companies' who will give you a job. Keep trying.

Having said all of this I know I'm wasting my time - there is no hope for someone with such juvenile and undeveloped views such as the ones that you portrayed in your post.
 
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Robertj21a

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Never going to happen. Feel free to print/save this post.

e: Actually, they also maintain a share in First (Leicester).



No they don't AFAIK. They *did*.

Robert
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
..........

On my first (and only) trip with TB, both buses were driven poorly. Let's face it, when First/Arriva/Stagecoach buy them out, everything will change including the silly route numbers such as Mickleover Blue.

It won't be any of those 3 - think of one just a little smaller.......

Robert
 

G0ORC

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If you know anything that we don't, would you like to share? ;)

Don't hold your breath - he/she doesn't know any more than you or me. Its junior school playground stuff - "I know something you don't so there..."

Some people on this forum should get out more - to them I suppose its like Fantasy Island. Think of something and start a rumour.

It makes them feel important - after all they've got nothing else to feel important about other than their seemingly mysterious comments on this forum.
 
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WillPS

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I presume this is the rubbish I saw about Go Ahead being interested, probably based on Keolis being a shareholder in the tram consortium.

The reality is that Trent Barton is an extremely successful business and any takeover would have to reflect this. The sort of efficiencies which the large groups generally make wouldn't really work when you consider what Trent Barton's success is built upon.
 

Robertj21a

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Don't hold your breath - he/she doesn't know any more than you or me. Its junior school playground stuff - "I know something you don't so there..."

Some people on this forum should get out more - to them I suppose its like Fantasy Island. Think of something and start a rumour.

It makes them feel important - after all they've got nothing else to feel important about other than their seemingly mysterious comments on this forum.


Yes, I can well understand that point of view. Fine by me !

Robert
.
 

Robertj21a

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See what I mean - no information.....

With respect, my original posting on the subject was merely a statement. I won't be adding anything to it, so you can totally ignore it if you wish. I'll probably refrain from posting such matters in future if it causes you such upset.

Robert
 

gordonthemoron

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I'd forgotten that TB own Kinchbus, they were dreadful when I lived in Sileby/Barrow on Soar so it was a relief to move back to West Bridgford
 

34D

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What this thread does go to show is how reliant bus companies are on a driver to build perceptions.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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What this thread does go to show is how reliant bus companies are on a driver to build perceptions.

Yes, but it is one of a number of factors to consider. After all, if I had one journey with friendly and skilled driver (like you had one bad one) on Banga Travel in Wolverhampton, would I then believe that it is one of the best bus companies in the country?

In addition, a wider point is the "I hate First, First are crap" statements. I don't doubt that it's the experience in some places but some First subsidiaries are actually pretty decent.

Even Stagecoach, which is now generally accorded to be the best of the big 4 consistently, has the odd flatspot which isn't quite as good (e.g. South Wales).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Veolia? (unlikely though.) Do you actually know?

Or go ahead?

Veolia......? Unlikely is a mastery of understatement.

I suspect that Go Ahead was the organisation that was being alluded to
 

Robertj21a

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I'd forgotten that TB own Kinchbus, they were dreadful when I lived in Sileby/Barrow on Soar so it was a relief to move back to West Bridgford

Wearing a pedant hat, TB doesn't own Kinchbus. It's Wellglade that owns Trentbarton, Kinchbus, TM Travel, Notts & Derby etc

Robert
 
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