Nottingham 'Bus War'

[pjnathanail]

What Your bus have done so far

So...your bus, during there time period have competed against NCT and TB:

YB TB Route TB service TB Response

Y5 Beeston-Long Eaton-Derby Indigo Introducing new 'zoom
between Erewash & Derby
Y1 Heanor-Derby H1 New increased timetables
on H1
Y3 Ilkeston-Derby Ilkeston Flyer New increased timetables
on Ilkeston Flyer
CL Nottingham-Derby fast Red Arrow Cheaper fares and
increased Sunday services

YB NT Route NT service NT Response

Y28 Nottingham-Bilborough 28 Nothing! Your bus, however have
now extended to Balloon Woods.

Y36 Nottingham-Chilwell 36 Not sure: Did NCT have students
for £1 before YB'scompetition?

And...they operate 3 services in Durham, many contract routes in Derbyshire and all Notts university hopper buses!

Also Y100 Nottingham Southwell NCT cut the fares on their 100

And many NatEx services

Indigo have just announced a massive reshuffle that sees Indigo every 5 minutes Nottingham Beeston and every 10 minutes Beeston Long Eaton. Derby and Briar Gate every twenty minutes each, with derby also having zoom every twenty, and a new sawley express will operate once per hour direct down queens road along with Skylink twice an hour (long eaton shorts withdrawn).

TB must be hoping to hit Y36 between Beeston and Nottingham but will leave Long Eaton Beeston more open to competition from Y5 as this sees a frequency cut

 

[harry42]

Humm...interesting!

Forgot they did the Y100, that can't have been a huge success!

What is this sawley xprss about?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Notts+Derby operate the X17 service between Derby and Borrowash every 30 mins approx. This is NOT under contract, so they operate it on a commercially viable basis. Therefore, as N+D and TB are owned by the Wellglade Group of whom don't compete against each other are TB allowed to set up a Borrowash-Derby service almost in direct competition with N+D?

If they do, TB are GOING TO WIN, as no-body has heard of Notts+Derby!

 

[Qwerty133]

Notts+Derby operate the X17 service between Derby and Borrowash every 30 mins approx. This is NOT under contract, so they operate it on a commercially viable basis. Therefore, as N+D and TB are owned by the Wellglade Group of whom don't compete against each other are TB allowed to set up a Borrowash-Derby service almost in direct competition with N+D?

If they do, TB are GOING TO WIN, as no-body has heard of Notts+Derby!

They could, but they won't as there is no point competing with your own service.
If Wellglade wanted to run the x17 as part of Trent Barton they would withdraw the notts and derby service at the same time.

 

[tbone]

Indigo will run every 5 minutes to Long Eaton at peak times, and ten minutes is still double the frequency of Y5.

The indigo runs to new and old Sawley will be cut, as will the skylink journeys that stop in long eaton. Instead an hourly bus (Sawley express) will follow the skylink route to Long Eaton then serve both New and Old Sawley.

 

[harry42]

I think YourBus should take huge advantage of the gap TB have (maybe purposely) left out: Beeston-Derby.

Also, what do you guys think of NCT's timetable changes on the maroon line? Bringing the 13 and 14 into 1 route???

 

[edwin_m]

I think it was inevitable that the 13 and 14 would be reduced in some way, given that the tram follows the Abbey Street and University Boulevard route and is likely to beat any bus competitor hands down on speed, frequency and reliability.

 

[CallySleeper]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-23663131

A "bus war" between two companies in Derbyshire may be bad for passengers, travel campaigners say.

The Derbyshire and Peak District Campaign for Better Transport said the two firms - Trent Barton and Yourbus - were competing for business on the same routes.

One company offered free breakfasts to commuters who chose its buses.

Trent Barton said it was sustaining its customer service, while Yourbus declined to comment.

Comments above re: loosing revenue by marketing your competitor's products stand.

Also, article in today's Post claiming that the new TB live will, er go live on the bank holiday weekend.

 

[harry42]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-23663131



Comments above re: loosing revenue by marketing your competitor's products stand.

Also, article in today's Post claiming that the new TB live will, er go live on the bank holiday weekend.

Interesting how YourBus declined to comment!

Who allows YourBus to run and stop at bus stops? Is it the council? If so, surely they could say no?

 

[radamfi]

Who allows YourBus to run and stop at bus stops? Is it the council? If so, surely they could say no?

Since 1986 outside London there has been bus deregulation, which means that any competent enough operator is allowed to run any route.

 

[Deerfold]

Interesting how YourBus declined to comment!

Who allows YourBus to run and stop at bus stops? Is it the council? If so, surely they could say no?

The council can only refuse access on routes with Quality Contracts in place, where the council has provided enhanced facilites and bus companies are expected to meet certain standards.

Otherwise it's up to the Traffic Commissioner to decide how many vehicles an operator is allowed to have registered at each depot - any complaints about regular deficiencies in services should be directed to them.

 

[radamfi]

The council can only refuse access on routes with Quality Contracts in place, where the council has provided enhanced facilites and bus companies are expected to meet certain standards.

I realise you are aware what a "Quality Contract" is but I think it is important to clarify these are "Statutory Quality Partnership" schemes, as the "Quality Contract" term is reserved for the ending of deregulation in an area. (There is no such area at the moment.) There is one for Nottingham city centre, where only operators of a certain quality are allowed. YourBus' fleet is very high standard for a competing company, so they would be unlikely to be banned for that reason.

 

[Deerfold]

I realise you are aware what a "Quality Contract" is but I think it is important to clarify these are "Statutory Quality Partnership" schemes, as the "Quality Contract" term is reserved for the ending of deregulation in an area. (There is no such area at the moment.) There is one for Nottingham city centre, where only operators of a certain quality are allowed. YourBus' fleet is very high standard for a competing company, so they would be unlikely to be banned for that reason.

You are quite right. Just been ill - that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[MCR247]

I haven't seen it reported on here, but NCTs 956 (Darwen Omnidekka) looks to be written off after it caught fire on the A50 a couple of weeks ago

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....tory-19642157-detail/story.html#axzz2cdVLGpbn

 

[edwin_m]

What was it doing out there. I know NCT buses are doing blockade work, along with virtually everything else that has four tolerably round wheels, but I don't think the A50 is one of the rail replacement routes.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

It was on the A50 at Markfield. Story here:
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Road-closed-hours-bus/story-19639595-detail/story.html
and here:
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/B...tory-19642173-detail/story.html#axzz2cgZyyTc8
which states it was linked to closure of Nottingham Station. There is a rail replacement bus shown leaving Leicester at 0615 for Loughborough & Nottingham in the temporary timetable.

 

[winston270twm]

Does anyone suspect that Yourbus could be receiving financial backing from another party or larger bus group?

They certainly seem to splashing the cash when starting new competitive routes against the likes of Trent Barton with brand new Citaros (which themselves are some of the most expensive single deckers on the market). Competing on Red Arrow with Citylink at high frequencies was also a big risk with the number of new vehicles involved......

Does anyone else have any thoughts/opinions?

 

[radamfi]

Does anyone suspect that Yourbus could be receiving financial backing from another party or larger bus group?

They certainly seem to splashing the cash when starting new competitive routes against the likes of Trent Barton with brand new Citaros (which themselves are some of the most expensive single deckers on the market). Competing on Red Arrow with Citylink at high frequencies was also a big risk with the number of new vehicles involved......

Does anyone else have any thoughts/opinions?

I asked that question before. The Dunn family presumably have made a lot of money over the years with their private hire coach firm, but the investment in Citaros etc. must have cost many £millions. Probably £millions down the drain in the case of Citylink. And surely they must have known it was a massive risk. It does seem hard to believe that they would be willing to just chuck so much money down the toilet, unless there are other factors in play.

 

[winston270twm]

I asked that question before. The Dunn family presumably have made a lot of money over the years with their private hire coach firm, but the investment in Citaros etc. must have cost many £millions. Probably £millions down the drain in the case of Citylink. And surely they must have known it was a massive risk. It does seem hard to believe that they would be willing to just chuck so much money down the toilet, unless there are other factors in play.

Dunn-line was sold to Veolia for 4p/share or £9.7 Million in 2006, looking a the offer document the Dunn family & trustee's owned about 66.5% of the share capital approx £6.45 Million, the Dunn family also 4.53% of the Rotala Plc issued share capital.

Even in Dunn-line days they never bought new buses in any great quantities

There just seems to be a lot of money around the Yourbus operation the past two years, when originally it was all second-hand acquisitions

 

[Mr Manager]

Their is someone behind it. industry rumours are rife but trust me i know who is pumping money in and you would be very surprised if i said who it was but i cant

 

[edwin_m]

I suppose if the NCT fire bus was going from Gotham garage to Leicester the A50 is possible. Must be a "one-off" rail replacement as it isn't one of the advertised blockade routes.

I think that is one of the 08 reg Omnidekkas bought for the 6 and 10 routes though it appears to be in "spare" livery. It's a long way from being the oldest or most ramshackle bus on blockade duties.

 

[winston270twm]

Their is someone behind it. industry rumours are rife but trust me i know who is pumping money in and you would be very surprised if i said who it was but i cant

I thought as much, a number of people suspect the operation is linked to/backed by Rotala Plc, but they don't appear to have that sort of money to invest in their own fleets with new vehicles let alone try and rattle Trent.

WMT/NX tried to weaken Trent some years back via Delta Dart

 

[MCR247]

I've heard rumours about it being stagecoach, but I thought they had now resolved their problems?

 

[winston270twm]

I've heard rumours about it being stagecoach, but I thought they had now resolved their problems?

I would think it would be one of the big bus groups (I think it's unlikely to be First Group though), Wellglade would make a good acquisition

What problems did Stagecoach have?

 

[ALIEN14247]

The NCT vehicle involved in the fire on the A50 was fleet number 956.
It was running light from Gotham to Leicester to operate a scheduled rail replacement journey which NCT has operated since works commenced at Nottingham Station.

 

[MCR247]

I would think it would be one of the big bus groups (I think it's unlikely to be First Group though), Wellglade would make a good acquisition

What problems did Stagecoach have?

I meant I thought that Stagecoach and Trent Barton had resolved their problems as Stagecoach weren't happy when TB launched the new threes which are every 10 minutes Sutton- Mansfield, competing with their 1(?) which was the same frequency. This was why they decided to take TBs pax on Pronto by running buses 5 minutes before

 

[winston270twm]

I meant I thought that Stagecoach and Trent Barton had resolved their problems as Stagecoach weren't happy when TB launched the new threes which are every 10 minutes Sutton- Mansfield, competing with their 1(?) which was the same frequency. This was why they decided to take TBs pax on Pronto by running buses 5 minutes before

Thanks for that, wasn't aware of a spat between Stagecoach & Trent Barton not living in the area

 

[harry42]

Went on Y5 today and had to stand!!!

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Derbyshire County Council:
From Sunday 6 October 2013
Service Y3 (Yourbus): This service will be extended to serve Cotmanhay, with a revised timetable


Now this is what is called initiative. Something new rather than just continual copying.There is no through bus service from Cotmanhay to Derby & there is the demand.

Now just get them to link their Y1 through to Eastwood, Kimberley etc

 

[Deerfold]

Now this is what is called initiative. Something new rather than just continual copying.There is no through bus service from Cotmanhay to Derby & there is the demand.

I heartily agree. If any newcomer is going to last they have to offer something different.

In some areas this can be by providing a better service. With Trentbarton that's harder.

Of course this is easier with tickets that are valid on multiple operators.

 

[nathanclass323]

I've always found TB and NCT to offer a better quality service. Plus, as they both have a lot more routes, I can buy day tickets for NCT and use my MANGÓ on trentbarton.