Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Mitch in Notts]

From Balloon Woods, all of Russell Drive and Trowell Road and all roads off here including Glaisdale and Lambourne.

Has there been a bus between Notts and Lincoln? If there has, its passed me by!

That end of Wollaton has always been predominantly Trent. Pre deregulation the operation was joint out to Wollaton with no restrictions simply because Wollaton used to be County and not City and Trent had always served it - City used to terminate at Crown Island with their very old 45 & 72.

Years ago Lincoln City Transport ran Lincoln-Newark-Nottingham-Derby because their vehicles were maintained by Debry City Transport. Sure I can remember seeing a timetable in an old Mid & South Derbyshire Timetable book.

Also the old Pathfinder ran Newark-Lincoln shoppers on a saturday and at one stage it was linked into their 100 Nottingham-Southwell-Newark though quickly curtailed to start from Southwell.

 

[edwin_m]

Centrelink runs free between Victoria and Broadmarsh every 10 mins Victoria is apperantly meant to be improving its **** hole bus station!!! (Sorry!) TB are/have moved to a portacabin thingy

On Centrelink you get to ride on an electric Solo, or I think the Red Arrow still drops and picks on Parliament Street which is near the city centre and about 10min closer to the match.

Blame the Great Central for Victoria bus station - and it hardly seems any time since the last rebuild!

 

[trentside]

That end of Wollaton has always been predominantly Trent. Pre deregulation the operation was joint out to Wollaton with no restrictions simply because Wollaton used to be County and not City and Trent had always served it - City used to terminate at Crown Island with their very old 45 & 72.

Years ago Lincoln City Transport ran Lincoln-Newark-Nottingham-Derby because their vehicles were maintained by Debry City Transport. Sure I can remember seeing a timetable in an old Mid & South Derbyshire Timetable book.

Also the old Pathfinder ran Newark-Lincoln shoppers on a saturday and at one stage it was linked into their 100 Nottingham-Southwell-Newark though quickly curtailed to start from Southwell.

Lincoln City Transported operated the X1 between Lincoln and Nottingham, I believe it was a once daily return working - operating an unusual route in places I seem to recall from my own copy of the timetable.

For a later service, Bellamy's tried a 205 service between Nottingham and Lincoln for a short time - I think there were three or four return workings, carrying next to no-one for most of their short time. Most workings were operated by elderly Leyland Lynx buses!

 

[Deerfold]

To be fair though, National Express run every 30 mins from Notts to Leicester but no one knows that and you have to pre-book and of course OAP's can't travel free!!!

You don't have to pre-book with NX - but if there are not enough seats you're not guaranteed travel. I used to travel regularly on a service with them that was usually about a quarter full on the section I used (on the 3am service!). I wouldn't try it on the 3am-ish service from Nottingham to London as that is often completely full.

Agree fully! It is a 'unitary authority' what ever that means?! (Quote: Wiki)

That means there's only one tier of local council, not two - with e.g. Mansfield District Council and above them the County Council.

The difference in bus stops predates Nottingham becoming a unitary authority.

Although...Notts+Derby serve Spondon stops unlike TB on a council tender. And now Yourbus are coming to destroy that tender?

I'm not quite sure what this means.

Both Notts+Derby and TB will serve whatever stops they're told to on a council tender.

 

[howittpie]

You wouldn't get to Leicester on the 3am London coach as it doesn't go to Leicester and hasn't done for a number of years. It does have a refreshment break at Leicester Forest East thougj.

 

[Heinz57]

YourBus have now decided to move in on the Ilkeston-Derby route, and will (try to) compete with the Ilkeston Flyer. Running there buses at a similar time to the Flyer, the differance is that they will stop at every stop in Spondon (which the Flyer officialy doesn't). Trent have responded by upping there times and the flyer will be something like every 15 minutes.

However, to at least make ends meet, YourBus will have to carry at least 10 passengers paying full fare on the full journy on EVERY single run.... Its not going to happen realy.


In other news, Trent are introducing a new express between Long Eaton and Derby, using the A52. It will be called 'Zoom'. The name is quite ironic realy because the route will be operated by some old 52 reg Solos!

 

[Welshman]

Blame the Great Central for Victoria bus station - and it hardly seems any time since the last rebuild!

The Great Central, under Edward Watkin, had aspirations to run direct from Nottingham to Paris via a Channel tunnel, long before the present one was built.

Don't blame GC for Victoria Bus Station - blame Richard Beeching, and the massive hole in the ground created by the closure of Victoria station.

 

[Deerfold]

You wouldn't get to Leicester on the 3am London coach as it doesn't go to Leicester and hasn't done for a number of years. It does have a refreshment break at Leicester Forest East thougj.

I realise that - I was just giving it as an example of an NX service I wouldn't try and catch without pre-booking. Most of the services to Leicester should be fine though.

 

[harry42]

That end of Wollaton has always been predominantly Trent. Pre deregulation the operation was joint out to Wollaton with no restrictions simply because Wollaton used to be County and not City and Trent had always served it - City used to terminate at Crown Island with their very old 45 & 72.

Years ago Lincoln City Transport ran Lincoln-Newark-Nottingham-Derby because their vehicles were maintained by Debry City Transport. Sure I can remember seeing a timetable in an old Mid & South Derbyshire Timetable book.

Also the old Pathfinder ran Newark-Lincoln shoppers on a saturday and at one stage it was linked into their 100 Nottingham-Southwell-Newark though quickly curtailed to start from Southwell.

Ahhh... thanks for that! Just out of interest, what service did Barton use to operate in Wollaton? And for the 45 and 72, how old is vey old?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Great Central, under Edward Watkin, had aspirations to run direct from Nottingham to Paris via a Channel tunnel, long before the present one was built.

Don't blame GC for Victoria Bus Station - blame Richard Beeching, and the massive hole in the ground created by the closure of Victoria station.

I blame Beeching anyway! He should have kept central station instead of Midland then we wouldn't have this ridiculous situation of getting tourists from the station into the city. They could accidently plod off into the meadows...at night!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You don't have to pre-book with NX - but if there are not enough seats you're not guaranteed travel. I used to travel regularly on a service with them that was usually about a quarter full on the section I used (on the 3am service!). I wouldn't try it on the 3am-ish service from Nottingham to London as that is often completely full.



That means there's only one tier of local council, not two - with e.g. Mansfield District Council and above them the County Council.

The difference in bus stops predates Nottingham becoming a unitary authority.



I'm not quite sure what this means.

Both Notts+Derby and TB will serve whatever stops they're told to on a council tender.

People don't take the risk on NX though. OK, thanks for the explanation on what a unitaty authority is!!!

Do TB do council tenders?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

YourBus have now decided to move in on the Ilkeston-Derby route, and will (try to) compete with the Ilkeston Flyer. Running there buses at a similar time to the Flyer, the differance is that they will stop at every stop in Spondon (which the Flyer officialy doesn't). Trent have responded by upping there times and the flyer will be something like every 15 minutes.

However, to at least make ends meet, YourBus will have to carry at least 10 passengers paying full fare on the full journy on EVERY single run.... Its not going to happen realy.


In other news, Trent are introducing a new express between Long Eaton and Derby, using the A52. It will be called 'Zoom'. The name is quite ironic realy because the route will be operated by some old 52 reg Solos!

10 passenger thing: How did you work that run out??!!
ZOOM: That is surely to compete with Y5?

 

[edwin_m]

I blame Beeching anyway! He should have kept central station instead of Midland then we wouldn't have this ridiculous situation of getting tourists from the station into the city. They could accidently plod off into the meadows...at night!

There are some fairly unsalubrious areas not far from Victoria as well.

 

[Cambus731]

in 2008 Bellamy's coaches set up a service M-S between the City Centre and Arnold using Routemasters, Unfortunately it didn't last very long. This will almost certainly prove to be the last attempt by anyone to run a normal commercial service anywhere using half cabs.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Ahhh... thanks for that! Just out of interest, what service did Barton use to operate in Wollaton? And for the 45 and 72, how old is vey old?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Barton 31 ran Nottingham-Wollaton-Bramcote Hills-Beeston-Chilwell(at times) until fairly recently. Nottingham Locallink L10 replaced it.

In 1978 NCT 39 & 72 ran Carlton-City-Ilkeston Rd-Crown Island. They may well have been interworked with the 45 Crown island-Derby Road-Nottingham-Wilford Hill. Nothing ran past Crown Island out of Nottingham.
NCT did serve Wollaton Vale on the 63 & 83 out of Nottingham via Derby Road (now the 35) at that time.

Extensions beyond Crown Island came about only through joint workings with Trent. And certainly by 1983 NCT were running through to Balloon Wood via Wollaton.
At that time there were no picking up restrictions on Trents 20-23(joint with NCT), 232 or 233. The 111 & 121 were still restricted at Eton Grove - the stop immediately after Crown Island. This situation, with some renumbering, continued until deregulation.

 

[harry42]

Ahhh... thanks for that! Just out of interest, what service did Barton use to operate in Wollaton? And for the 45 and 72, how old is vey old?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Barton 31 ran Nottingham-Wollaton-Bramcote Hills-Beeston-Chilwell(at times) until fairly recently. Nottingham Locallink L10 replaced it.

In 1978 NCT 39 & 72 ran Carlton-City-Ilkeston Rd-Crown Island. They may well have been interworked with the 45 Crown island-Derby Road-Nottingham-Wilford Hill. Nothing ran past Crown Island out of Nottingham.
NCT did serve Wollaton Vale on the 63 & 83 out of Nottingham via Derby Road (now the 35) at that time.

Extensions beyond Crown Island came about only through joint workings with Trent. And certainly by 1983 NCT were running through to Balloon Wood via Wollaton.
At that time there were no picking up restrictions on Trents 20-23(joint with NCT), 232 or 233. The 111 & 121 were still restricted at Eton Grove - the stop immediately after Crown Island. This situation, with some renumbering, continued until deregulation.

Thanks, really helped.

 

[Heinz57]

10 passenger thing: How did you work that run out??!!

A friend at Trent told me

 

[pjnathanail]

A friend at Trent told me

How would they know yourbus cost base?

 

[Statto]

Ahhh... thanks for that! Just out of interest, what service did Barton use to operate in Wollaton? And for the 45 and 72, how old is vey old?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I blame Beeching anyway! He should have kept central station instead of Midland then we wouldn't have this ridiculous situation of getting tourists from the station into the city. They could accidently plod off into the meadows...at night!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


People don't take the risk on NX though. OK, thanks for the explanation on what a unitaty authority is!!!

Do TB do council tenders?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


10 passenger thing: How did you work that run out??!!
ZOOM: That is surely to compete with Y5?

You don't have to pre-book a seat for NEX Coaches, but people do to to be on the safe side & guarantee a seat.

Say, someone hasn't pre-booked a seat, & turns up at the sop in the early hours, for an NEX Coach service hoping to board the service only to find it's full with a long wait through the night for the next one.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

10 passenger thing: How did you work that run out??!!

Quite easy to work out. A bus needs to be making about £350-400 a day based on a standard 11 hour day (Mon to Sat), average miles/MPG. That equates to a revenue per hour of £35.

If you know the average fare, divide the £35 by that to know your average passengers per hour.

 

[harry42]

Quite easy to work out. A bus needs to be making about £350-400 a day based on a standard 11 hour day (Mon to Sat), average miles/MPG. That equates to a revenue per hour of £35.

If you know the average fare, divide the £35 by that to know your average passengers per hour.

Ye...suppose so! But they din't have to have 10 on EVERY journey. Just avergae. E.g. they could have a full bsu of 40 at 9am into Derby but 1 person on the next bus, and they would still be tickityboo!

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Yourbus are allowing Trent Barton zigzag holders to use the Y1, Y3 and citylink routes free.

Screenshot from Facebook

 

[harry42]

Why???? I can only assume that they are trying to get TB passengers on-to there services then they assume the passengers think they are better so they use them all the time even when this deal is off. Still very confusing though!

Next thing, Your Bus will be part of Wellglade!!!

 

[MCR247]

That is dirty.

 

[harry42]

That is dirty.

What? YB accepting zig zasgs?

 

[trentside]

I seem to remember that when Yourbus first started the Y81/Y82 routes, that they had some sort of offer whereby NCT/Tram ticket holders could travel for a reduced fare - I believe it was either 50p or £1.

 

[Deerfold]

I seem to remember that when Yourbus first started the Y81/Y82 routes, that they had some sort of offer whereby NCT/Tram ticket holders could travel for a reduced fare - I believe it was either 50p or £1.

I can see the sense in that - at least they get something from people who would otherwise be unlikely to travel with them.

However offering free travel to ZigZag holders makes it the best ticket to buy - as tb are unlikely to reciprocate.

Do Yourbus do season or day tickets? There's nothing on their website I can find about them.

 

[pjnathanail]

I can see the sense in that - at least they get something from people who would otherwise be unlikely to travel with them.

However offering free travel to ZigZag holders makes it the best ticket to buy - as tb are unlikely to reciprocate.

Do Yourbus do season or day tickets? There's nothing on their website I can find about them.

It will also add the to existing confusion of people thinking they are Trent Barton, but it does mean they get people onto their buses. To make it work they will have to encourage drivers to explain that it's a special offer to remove the confusion.

They offer day, week and month tickets

Adult £7 (£5 after 9AM) £20 £70
Student £5 £20 £65
Child £5 £20 £65

 

[Deerfold]

It will also add the to existing confusion of people thinking they are Trent Barton, but it does mean they get people onto their buses. To make it work they will have to encourage drivers to explain that it's a special offer to remove the confusion.

Indeed - or they'll end up really annoying people who get on their buses after the offer is over and miss a TB bus whilst they're being told their ticket isn't valid.

They offer day, week and month tickets

Adult £7 (£5 after 9AM) £20 £70
Student £5 £20 £65
Child £5 £20 £65

Thanks. I wonder why there's so little promotion of these on their website - on their buses is a bit late if they're having trouble attracting people.

 

[CallySleeper]

Utter idiots. Didn't Premiere do something similar on the red 5 before their demise? I'm fairly sure that yourbus haven't really learnt anything from watching Premiere fail. How long until we see YB potentially following behind Premiere on the road to administration?

In happier news, TB have announced that live bus tracking + new website is only weeks away.

 

[pjnathanail]

Indeed - or they'll end up really annoying people who get on their buses after the offer is over and miss a TB bus whilst they're being told their ticket isn't valid.

Yes. I have already seen that to a certain extent, especially on Y5 where the bus is only every 20 minutes

Thanks. I wonder why there's so little promotion of these on their website - on their buses is a bit late if they're having trouble attracting people.[/QUOTE]

I know, they used to be in the Citylink section but after the frequency cut that timetable is now a PDF not a web page.

They are briefly referenced here for their genie cards, but other than that nowhere.

http://www.catchyourbus.co.uk/genie/networkgenie.html

Utter idiots. Didn't Premiere do something similar on the red 5 before their demise? I'm fairly sure that yourbus haven't really learnt anything from watching Premiere fail. How long until we see YB potentially following behind Premiere on the road to administration?

In happier news, TB have announced that live bus tracking + new website is only weeks away.

Yes they did, but that was permanent not a temporary offer. It all depends on whether they gain additional passengers, which is fine even if most don't stick after September, or as suggested above people who previously bought yourbus tickets now buy a zigzag. If that happens yourbus will really be hit.

If that is true, that will be a major usp over yourbus, the amount of time I've stood standing at bus stops waiting for early/late/cancelled buses is unreal. Ironically though, the system would be more useful for yourbus as most of their routes have free wifi so you could journey plan on route.

 

[CallySleeper]

Alex Hornby tweeted this evening "Very nice of a competitor to market zigzag for us. The world's gone mad."

 

[harry42]

What Your bus have done so far

So...your bus, during there time period have competed against NCT and TB:

YB TB Route TB service TB Response

Y5 Beeston-Long Eaton-Derby Indigo Introducing new 'zoom
between Erewash & Derby
Y1 Heanor-Derby H1 New increased timetables
on H1
Y3 Ilkeston-Derby Ilkeston Flyer New increased timetables
on Ilkeston Flyer
CL Nottingham-Derby fast Red Arrow Cheaper fares and
increased Sunday services

YB NT Route NT service NT Response

Y28 Nottingham-Bilborough 28 Nothing! Your bus, however have
now extended to Balloon Woods.

Y36 Nottingham-Chilwell 36 Not sure: Did NCT have students
for £1 before YB'scompetition?

And...they operate 3 services in Durham, many contract routes in Derbyshire and all Notts university hopper buses!