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Nottingham 'Bus War'

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Deerfold

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If it's saving the tax payer money then it's not predatory behaviour. If NCT can run the route comercially then NCC have been wasting money and Doyles have been taking money from the taxpayer that they shouldn't have.


That depends - if it means there's bits of the route are no longer served so the route can be commercial then some people lose out.

Some commercial contracts are not for much more than the fares income so can result in a bus service for only a small outlay.
 
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tbone

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Doyles seem to be having a period of bad luck again - they lost quite a lot of work to Yourbus and TM Travel a couple of years ago, causing them to downsize. They subsequently gained contracts in Mansfield and Chesterfield, but have now lost the Chesterfield contracts, the 330 and some work in Derbyshire - I seem to recall that it equates to around 7 vehicles worth of work.

I'll be interested to see if NCT can make the 33 work commercially. The corridor seems to be constantly chopped and changed - ever since Dunn-Line dropped the 170 group of services there doesn't seem to have been any stability with the contracts passing to Doyles, Yourbus, Premiere then back to Doyles before NCT's commercial registration.

Doyles have also lost the 59 (Derby to Ilkeston) to yourbus
 

Heinz57

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Doyles have also lost the 59 (Derby to Ilkeston) to yourbus

That routes been going steadily down hill ever since Felix lost it a few years back. Now when you pass a 59 there's never a soul on it. Doyles tried making it better with that irregular time table change by taking the bus up to Shipley View whenever they can be botherd.

I've seen plenty of them headed in the direction of the estate in the past, never actualy seen one driving around it though. Its like they just vanish as soon as they pull on - its like a vortex!

I'm surprised ol' trent barton havn't moved in on that route, to increase their stranglehold on the Ilkeston - Derby run.
 

Deerfold

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Trentbarton are improving the ZigZag - from 4th November the ZigZag stays at £5 and valid from 0900 but wil be valid on all services (so no longer excludes Derby/Leicester Skylink and pronto).

ZigZag plus falls from £10 to £8 and is valid until 0400 the next day.

Wonder if the competition on the pronto has prompted the first change?
 

MCR247

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The 1700 (return) and the 1825 (out) buses are pretty pointless
 

Deerfold

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The 1700 (return) and the 1825 (out) buses are pretty pointless

Unless people have come from somewhere other than the university before shopping or are returning somewhere different afterwards (home, perhaps).

Besides, I'm assuming the 1700 will drop off as it picks up as the 1725, so it really might as well run.
 

MCR247

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I suppose and thinking about it, the bus would have to get back to the university to form the next bus anyway so you might as well have it in service
 

bluenoxid

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Can anyone tell me who Notts and Derby is? They operate the D1 bus among others in Derby.

Cheers
 

Deerfold

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They're a low-cost subsidiary of Wellglade - who also own TrentBarton, Kinch and TM Travel.

They tend to own the older vehicles which helps TB keep its quoted average vehicle age down. It's more likely to bid for contracts than TB - and then doesn't have to accept TB tickets.
 

MCR247

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TB and Kinchbus buses tend to get handed down to them. It isn't unknown for a Notts and Derby bus to turn up on the TB when they are really short on vehicles (ie a paladin on the 21)
 

bluenoxid

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Well that explains why the system has sent the email to Trent Barton then.
 

tbone

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Notts and Derby mostly run school buses using ex Trent Paladins and various ex London and Edinburgh deckers. They've also started running private hire contracts, using some seatbelted paladins and two ex trent coaches.

They also run contracts, mostly in Derby, the D1 as you mentioned, also the X17, 17, 17a, 9 and 35 and also some routes in Long Eaton and Ilkeston. They also run the 73 (Derby to Weston on Trent) comercially. These are run using a mix of Paladins, darts, a solo, a DAF myllenium, decekrs and recently a number of Centros have joined the fleet. Unibus branded buses also regularly make appearances.

They also provide all of the University of Derby's transport, including a number of routes to the Buxton campus (although some are now subcontracted to High Peak) and a network of three routes serving the Derby buildings. Excels, Paladins, 3 solos, 1 decker and 1 centro are branded for these.

Finally, this summer, Trent Barton subcontracted Notts and Derby two shuttle buses, both from Derby, one to Drayton Manner and one to Alton Towers. The idea was that you bought a ticket on a trent barton bus, made your way to Derby and the shuttle would take you to the theme park, and the ticket you bought on the first bus would also get you entry. Two double deckers were put into dedicated liveries, one sky blue for Drayton Manner and one dark blue for Alton Towers.

(They also sort of run part of the Ilkeston Flyer and Black Cat, that used to be run by Felix. Legally, these are run by Midland General but drivers were N&D uniforms and if the branded buses aren't available then N&D ones are used instead)
 

WillPS

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What's the situation regarding ticketing on the former Felix Midland General services? Do they accept Mango yet? Is the Black Cat running with the Trent Barton branding?
 

tbone

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What's the situation regarding ticketing on the former Felix Midland General services? Do they accept Mango yet? Is the Black Cat running with the Trent Barton branding?

No and no! There have been suggestions that changes to the former are in the pipeline, with a suggestion that two Solars from Rainbow 4 would replace two tempos on the 21, allowing a uniform fleet on the black cat
 

bb21

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Trentbarton are improving the ZigZag - from 4th November the ZigZag stays at £5 and valid from 0900 but wil be valid on all services (so no longer excludes Derby/Leicester Skylink and pronto).

Quite a big saving on a Leicester - Derby return which is currently £10, although of course the return ticket is valid for three months.

The single costs £6. I wonder if the driver would just sell a ZigZag instead. :roll:
 

WillPS

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Looks like a long(er) term trial given the vinyls applied. Optare not in favour again then?
 

Ginga

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Red Arrow prices go up on Sunday.

The £7 peak return is replaced by the Zigzag plus at £8. A weekly ticket goes up to £30 (was it not £25 at the start of the year?).

I've seen the latest Council Market Share figures for Nottinghamshire .
Trent Barton are down 2.6%.
Stagecoach are down 2.8%.

Trent Barton have also lost around £100k pa in Notts County Council funding for the "Threes" to Oakham Business Park and some early morning 3a funding.

They could also lose the funding they get for Radcliffe line services .(under review by Notts cc Titan plans).:lol:
 

MCR247

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Had an email from TB saying that zigzag will still not be valid on skylink Derby & Leicester or pronto
 

Deerfold

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Had an email from TB saying that zigzag will still not be valid on skylink Derby & Leicester or pronto

Apologies if I've misled you - it sounds like they need to add a disclaimer to their claim at https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/travel-updates:

Trenbarton Website said:
All zigzag tickets offer unlimited travel right across trentbarton land, and we hope that by making the prices even better value it will encourage you to travel with us more often.


I've no problem with them having limits on tickets but presumably they shouldn't then be described as "unlimited".
 

MCR247

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Apologies if I've misled you - it sounds like they need to add a disclaimer to their claim at https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/travel-updates:




I've no problem with them having limits on tickets but presumably they shouldn't then be described as "unlimited".

No you haven't mislead me - I also noted the lack of disclaimer that is always present and since they were announcing changes to it and not just promoting, I thought I'd ask them just so I knew :)
 

tbone

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Red 5 is also going back to every 20 minutes, apparantly due to roadworks. This is from Monday. Nothing on VOSA.
 
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