Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Bletchleyite]

Its not unheard of for a commercial operator to run some journeys on an overall profitable route. I use the V2 occasionally, admittedly only between the city and Nottingham airport, in the daytime, and it seems pretty well I used I don't know if it is more marginal further from the city though.

It isn't, but that tends more to be infills, e.g. evening services around 8pm where a full evening service is operated, largely because they are marginal services which would just have the bus and driver parked up somewhere if they didn't run.


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[Mitch in Notts]

I have thought four evening departures from Nottingham(in total) on the two routes (V1 & V2) was stretching demand somewhat.

Why not keep the East Bridgford journeys, and return them to Nottingham via Cropwell Bishop. Alright much longer journey from Nottingham to Cropwell Bishop but at least the journey opportunity would be there.
The county council are unlikely to fund ANY evening venture considering they are cutting other funded services.

 

[backontrack]

Will this affect the Burton village bus? My guess is no, but you can never tell.

 

[ag51ruk]

Will this affect the Burton village bus? My guess is no, but you can never tell.

No, this is the "other" Villager. The challenge for the Burton Villagers will come from Derbyshire's proposed.removal of all.subsidy from November 2017, they currently subsidise the Sunday buses at least at the moment on that V1/3

 

[nottinghamcity]

Interesting times on skylink Nottingham today. I had a flight from EMA at 11:40. The combination of download, the M1 jumper, and the coalville bus being in an RTA earlier meant not a chance. It was pretty much walking pace or less from sawley marina. At the airport, the driver gave everyone disembarking a free zigzag plus voucher. On the return journey(which obviously I hadn't wanted to make) there was no charge either. I've got to say, this is impressive customer service.

 

[Ginga]

Update from Notts County Council.

In 2014 the County Council withdrew support for two evening journeys to Shelford and East Bridgford as part of the budget efficiencies review. Following extensive local consultation in 2015 Trentbarton Buses agreed to re-instate these services and provide additional evening journeys for villages to the south of Bingham on a commercial basis. Trentbarton have now advised the County Council that they will be withdrawing the
evening journeys on their Rushcliffe Villager routes from 31 July 2016. Passenger figures and revenue information unfortunately show that patronage has not been sufficient to make these viable. Average revenue for the 8 months of operation has been £864.88 per month against an operating cost of £3,018 per period. In recent months the level of use has also dropped sharply from 971 passengers in January to 620 in April. The daytime Villager 1 & 2 services are unaffected by these withdrawals. All local Members and Parish Councils have been informed of the decision.

6. Cotswold CVS Transport have recently gone into administration. They operated two local bus routes, one primary school run and an adult day centre route under contract to the County Council, these have all been covered with local operators and our own Fleet Transport Service at no additional cost. The services had been part of the local transport review carried out in the Newark area in 2012/13 and included trial tenders for operating Adult Day Care services. At that time Cotswold CVS Transport were the only bidders for this work.

7. Service 510 operated by Fleet Transport in the Beeston and Stapleford area is currently being reviewed following a number of complaints regarding reliability. It is proposed to revise the afternoon timetable and remove the last journey which carries virtually no passengers. Local Members will be consulted before any changes are agreed or introduced.

8. There are a number of road works and road closures around the County which will affect local bus services. During the closures we will be operating a replacement shuttle service for Radcliffe on Trent, Newstead Village and Upton to maintain access to employment, health and essential shopping. The additional costs of around £7,500 can be contained within the local bus budget.

 

[winston270twm]

Derbyshire County Councils Forthcoming changes to bus services webpage states the Y4 withdrawn from the 24th July with 'Alternative buses are available on other services'.....

Yourbus currently have 5 x 62 plate Citaro's advertised for sale (looks to be 3010-14). They obviously don't have a new route planned to replace the withdrawal of the Y4

 

[Urobach]

Yourbus currently have 5 x 62 plate Citaro's advertised for sale (looks to be 3010-14). They obviously don't have a new route planned to replace the withdrawal of the Y4

Additionally the Y28 is now also listed as cancelled from 14 August

 

[winston270twm]

Additionally the Y28 is now also listed as cancelled from 14 August

With the Y4 & Y28 cancelled I assuming that will make approx 10 buses redundant, Interesting that Yourbus are getting rid of newer Citaro's instead on the ex London 03/53 plate examples

 

[Robertj21a]

With the Y4 & Y28 cancelled I assuming that will make approx 10 buses redundant, Interesting that Yourbus are getting rid of newer Citaro's instead on the ex London 03/53 plate examples

There's always been an assumption that the lease charges on those Citaros must have been fairly substantial.

 

[nottinghamcity]

YourBus have also registered changes to the 59. It appears from the derbybus description that TB have taken the M-Su service commercial, and YB are continuing the tendered Su service.

 

[Deerfold]

YourBus have also registered changes to the 59. It appears from the derbybus description that TB have taken the M-Su service commercial, and YB are continuing the tendered Su service.

I don't understand.

There is no service on the 59 on a Sunday.

 

[nottinghamcity]

I don't understand.

There is no service on the 59 on a Sunday.

On the future TB timetable is the wording "Sunday buses are operated by YOURBUS under contract to Derbyshire County Council"

 

[ag51ruk]

I don't understand.

There is no service on the 59 on a Sunday.

There isn't - the Sunday service runs as route 11, the timetable on the DCC website for the 59 also includes route 11 buses and the Sunday buses are YourBus 11 operating under contract - the 11 doesn't serve the same route throughout though

 

[Pigalle]

Not exactly Nottingham but Trent Barton news. Today I have again heard that the Mickleover is getting Enviro 200s from September. It is being said that they were part of the deal for the Red Arrow coaches!

 

[ag51ruk]

Not exactly Nottingham but Trent Barton news. Today I have again heard that the Mickleover is getting Enviro 200s from September. It is being said that they were part of the deal for the Red Arrow coaches!

That's my local route when in that part of the world, so good to see new vehicles, the existing buses still look.good.inside but have never been particularly.reliable - lots of breakdowns. But doesn't that mean they'll be smaller than the current Eclipses?

 

[Volvo142]

Today I have again heard that the Mickleover is getting Enviro 200s from September. It is being said that they were part of the deal for the Red Arrow coaches!

Eh?

How would they be part of the Red Arrow Coach deal? The Red Arrows are Volvo vehicles with Plaxton bodiework, while ADL E200's are an Alexander Dennis product. Where's the link?

 

[Ian Hardy]

ADL own Plaxtons, a sort of connection

 

[Volvo142]

ADL own Plaxtons, a sort of connection

Ah, didn't realise that....thanks for the info!

 

[Pigalle]

That's my local route when in that part of the world, so good to see new vehicles, the existing buses still look.good.inside but have never been particularly.reliable - lots of breakdowns. But doesn't that mean they'll be smaller than the current Eclipses?

That seems to be the case which has caused much bafflement at the decision. Originally I'd heard it was going to be Versas which was even more baffling given the loadings on the route but the Enviro story has been consistent over the last couple of weeks.

As for the Eclipses I personally think they are the best buses in the fleet (and I travel regularly on just about every type of bus in the fleet) and anything other than them will be a retrograde step in my opinion. As for breakdowns, I have travelled on them, almost every day since they were introduced and I've never had one break down on me. Whilst substitutions occur I can travel for weeks without ever travelling on a non-Mickleover branded bus.

 

[Mugby]

TrentBarton simply can't cope with the loadings on The Mickleover, it's standing room only throughout much of the day and at some of the stops after the bus station, The Wardwick for example, it's pot luck whether you get on or not.
If they'd done the sensible thing and ordered Enviro 400s, they could have made it a really good bus service.

I can't agree about the Eclipses, the seats in the rear portion are far too high, they give the feeling of sitting up with the Gods and create a claustrophobic atmosphere at the back. The vehicles which Arriva use on the X38 look to be much better in that respect.

 

[Pigalle]

TrentBarton simply can't cope with the loadings on The Mickleover, it's standing room only throughout much of the day and at some of the stops after the bus station, The Wardwick for example, it's pot luck whether you get on or not.
If they'd done the sensible thing and ordered Enviro 400s, they could have made it a really good bus service.

I can't agree about the Eclipses, the seats in the rear portion are far too high, they give the feeling of sitting up with the Gods and create a claustrophobic atmosphere at the back. The vehicles which Arriva use on the X38 look to be much better in that respect.

While I agree about the rear seats and try never to sit there I'm not sure how that supports an argument about reliability / lots of breakdowns.

 

[ag51ruk]

While I agree about the rear seats and try never to sit there I'm not sure how that supports an argument about reliability / lots of breakdowns.

I don't think that poster mentioned breakdowns, that was me. It isnt uncommon, in my experience, to see substitute buses on the Mickleover every day. I recall only a couple of weeks ago seeing three substitutes in a row passing me on the way into Derby. If you haven't experienced breakdowns, that's great - I'm not going to argue with you about personal experiences.

Having done some more digging, I think we need to wait and see - there are clearly changes planned in the Derby area soon, on other sites the suggestion is E200s heading to the Nines and new Solos for the Spondon Flyer (plus new replacement Solos for the Allestree), so this could well be true.

 

[tbone]

I don't think that poster mentioned breakdowns, that was me. It isnt uncommon, in my experience, to see substitute buses on the Mickleover every day. I recall only a couple of weeks ago seeing three substitutes in a row passing me on the way into Derby. If you haven't experienced breakdowns, that's great - I'm not going to argue with you about personal experiences.

Having done some more digging, I think we need to wait and see - there are clearly changes planned in the Derby area soon, on other sites the suggestion is E200s heading to the Nines and new Solos for the Spondon Flyer (plus new replacement Solos for the Allestree), so this could well be true.

The Mickleover fleet have recently been undergoing g their MOTs I believe which is why a few have been off. The Eclipses are some of the most reliable buses in the fleet actually, however running along a fairly tight and busy Uttoxeter Road and round the estates (with badly parked cars) probably leads to a fair bit of accident damage.

Trent trialed two lengths of E200, one of which had a similar capacity to the current buses.

The only Wirght heavyweight single deck available now is on the Volvo B8 chassis and this has rear seats far higher than the ones currently on there.

 

[Robertj21a]

The Mickleover fleet have recently been undergoing g their MOTs I believe which is why a few have been off. The Eclipses are some of the most reliable buses in the fleet actually, however running along a fairly tight and busy Uttoxeter Road and round the estates (with badly parked cars) probably leads to a fair bit of accident damage.

Trent trialed two lengths of E200, one of which had a similar capacity to the current buses.

The only Wirght heavyweight single deck available now is on the Volvo B8 chassis and this has rear seats far higher than the ones currently on there.

Does it have to be Wright ?

 

[tbone]

Does it have to be Wright ?

A previous poster made reference to Arriva's VDL powered Wrightbuses.

The market is generally heading towards lightweight full size vehicles, the streetlite, Enviro 200 MMC and Versa/Metrocity being in favour over Enviro 300s, Eclipses and Tempos. There's only really Mercedes Citaros and the Eclipse 3/MCV Evolution on the B8 chassis available as heavyweight single decker a on the UK market

 

[Robertj21a]

A previous poster made reference to Arriva's VDL powered Wrightbuses.

The market is generally heading towards lightweight full size vehicles, the streetlite, Enviro 200 MMC and Versa/Metrocity being in favour over Enviro 300s, Eclipses and Tempos. There's only really Mercedes Citaros and the Eclipse 3/MCV Evolution on the B8 chassis available as heavyweight single decker a on the UK market

Yes, I was thinking of the MCV and the Citaro, hence my query about Wright. The VDL/Pulsars seem very popular, and reliable, with Arriva.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, I was thinking of the MCV and the Citaro, hence my query about Wright. The VDL/Pulsars seem very popular, and reliable, with Arriva.

Sadly, the Pulsar is no longer in production - shame as I quite like them. Arriva subsidiaries have tended to go for the Streetlite subsequently

 

[Pigalle]

I don't think that poster mentioned breakdowns, that was me.

Apologies to ag51ruk; that will teach me not to pay attention to who has posted what.

The real issue with the Mickleover is not the buses IMO but the timekeeping; quite often the service degenerates into a random service. If TB are going to use slightly smaller buses I wonder if they will up the frequency to try and maintain a service that resembles something like the timetable. I'm not sure that that is a very cost effective solution but it is what TB did on The Two.

 

[tbone]

Apologies to ag51ruk; that will teach me not to pay attention to who has posted what.

The real issue with the Mickleover is not the buses IMO but the timekeeping; quite often the service degenerates into a random service. If TB are going to use slightly smaller buses I wonder if they will up the frequency to try and maintain a service that resembles something like the timetable. I'm not sure that that is a very cost effective solution but it is what TB did on The Two.

One rumour is that they're introducing a new variant of the route (alongside the green and blue routes) to serve new parts of the area. Mickleover has seen more than its fair share of new developments recently.