Notification of summons application

[Mike92avfc]

Hi all,

Towards the end of January I was travelling on the c2c rail service from Benfleet to West Ham. Having bought the ticket, when asked to produce by an inspector, I did not have it. I have a feeling it either dropped out of my pocket on the train or on the platform.

I paid the £20 penalty fare on the day in full and had no argument to do so as I realised that to them, it looks as though I tried to fare evade. The inspector also took down my details and assured me that no further action would be taken regarding this as I had already paid the fine, which I have a receipt for.
(Even though the inspector said to 'throw the receipt in the bin, or something')

Today I received a letter from c2c prosecutions dept. stating a 'alleged fare evasion notification of summons application' and have demanded that I pay an immediate full settlement of £74.80 (£65 admin and £9.80 for the ticket).

Is this something I have to pay as well as the £20 penalty fare I have already paid? Or would this be worth disputing? As a total of £94.80 seems very steep for stupidly misplacing my ticket.

Any help on this would be much appreciated, as I will be speaking to staff at Benfleet station this evening.

Thanks!

 

[najaB]

Is this something I have to pay as well as the £20 penalty fare I have already paid? Or would this be worth disputing? As a total of £94.80 seems very steep for stupidly misplacing my ticket.

If you were issued and paid a penalty fare that should have been the end of the matter. They cannot issue a penalty fare and also charge you for the same offence. Be careful that you don't come across too aggressive/arrogant in any dealings with them as they would be entirely within their rights to refund you the £20 and continue with a prosecution.

 

[Puffing Devil]

If you were issued and paid a penalty fare that should have been the end of the matter. They cannot issue a penalty fare and also charge you for the same offence.

I agree - though I do hope that you have some proof of payment of the penalty fare.

Be careful that you don't come across too aggressive/arrogant in any dealings with them as they would be entirely within their rights to refund you the £20 and continue with a prosecution.

Here I disagree. By issuing a penalty fare a reasonable expectation that a prosecution will not be pursued, providing, of course, that the penalty fare is paid, has been raised.

Any decision to prosecute should be challenged on this basis.

Edited to add:

That said, najaB's advice regarding the approach to take with the prosecutors should, at least initially, be conciliatory. Big boots can always be pulled on later, if necessary.

 

[SussexMan]

... as they would be entirely within their rights to refund you the £20 and continue with a prosecution.

Can you give us some links to back up this statement? I often hear it said that a Penalty Fare is a "fare" and payment of it allows you to travel to the next station. Once paid, it has been paid and the person is now travelling having paid (albeit a higher amount) a fare for their journey.

I've had a quick look re the Penalty Fare rules and I can't see anything suggesting that a TOC can, having issued a Penalty Fare and been paid the correct amount, simply refund the passenger and then claim they were travelling without a ticket and instigate a prosecution.

 

[Mike92avfc]

I agree - though I do hope that you have some proof of payment of the penalty fare.

Yes I have a receipt of the payment being made on the date, although the issuer failed to fill out any of my details when entering it. I paid by card and have a reference, could this by why they've sent the letter?

Would it be acceptable to go to benfleet station with the proof and resolve there? Or would a letter be more suitable as they've stated it has to be in writing?

 

[najaB]

I've had a quick look re the Penalty Fare rules and I can't see anything suggesting that a TOC can, having issued a Penalty Fare and been paid the correct amount, simply refund the passenger and then claim they were travelling without a ticket and instigate a prosecution.

Payment of a Penalty Fare is, by definition, acknowledgement by the passenger that they didn't have a valid ticket. It wouldn't be a normal thing to do, but a PF can be refunded if the TOC has reason to believe that a more serious irregularity has occurred than it initially appeared to be.

 

[Mike92avfc]

Thanks for your responses on this,

I'll be hand delivering the quoted letter on Monday to the benfleet ticket office, if someone could proof read and let me know if this sounds ok?

Upon receipt of your letter, I do deem it necessary to write back to you in order to clarify the situation. The inspector (inspectors id) informed me that there would be no further action taken regarding this as I paid a £20 penalty fare at the time of the incident and had no problem in doing so.
As your letter states, the inspector had to assume that I was attempting to avoid paying the fare. Please do accept my apology for this and I hope that you acknowledge that this was not the case. As previously stated, the inspector did assure me that once I had paid the penalty fare of £20 there would be no further action taken.
I did keep the receipt of this, the penalty fare ID is: PFID although the inspector failed to fill out any of my personal details, which I must assume is where the confusion has arisen.
Please note that the incident occurred on date/time. I am happy to send you a copy of this receipt, if you would please let me know whether this is necessary.
Your letter was completely unexpected because of the assurance I had from the ticket inspector, but please do inform me if the payment of £74.80 is still necessary and I will happily oblige as long as the previous £20 penalty fare is refunded and I am assured in writing that the matter is resolved.
Yours sincerely,

Thanks all.

 

[Master29]

Payment of a Penalty Fare is, by definition, acknowledgement by the passenger that they didn't have a valid ticket. It wouldn't be a normal thing to do, but a PF can be refunded if the TOC has reason to believe that a more serious irregularity has occurred than it initially appeared to be.

I see what you mean now. I was about to ask if the OP should just ignore the correspondence and if it does go any further let C2C make themselves look daft. On the basis of this I think that wouldn`t be wise.

 

[furlong]

Keep it short and simple and stick to the known facts. If you already paid a penalty fare include a photocopy (ideally) of the paperwork as confirmation that the matter was resolved on the spot.

(Best to avoid speculating in letters like these and no need to offer to pay more IMHO.)

 

[philthetube]

Keep it short and simple and stick to the known facts. If you already paid a penalty fare include a photocopy (ideally) of the paperwork as confirmation that the matter was resolved on the spot.

(Best to avoid speculating in letters like these and no need to offer to pay more IMHO.)

I cannot advise on content bet use short paragraphs and use spaces between them, makes for easier reading.

Read you original post then your draft letter and you will see what I mean.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Your letter could do with a little tweak - I would not be offering to pay the sum demanded at this stage, as they will no doubt just say yes please. I'm out today and don't have the time to offer any corrections - though there are plenty on here who can help.

The reply should be sent to the address of the prosecutions department, "signed for" delivery, not to the ticket office.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I strongly agree with Puffing Devil that the ticket office in NOT the appropriate place to deliver your response. It shold be sent to the Company's Revenue and Prosecutions Department.

On the face of what you have reported on here, and with no knowledge of what may have been recorded in the Inspector's notebook, I am inclined to suspect that there has been an error in following up a Penalty Fare with a prosecution (again, I'm in agreement with P D, based on what you have reported on here). However, it is a matter of fact that if an Offence appears to have been committed, and with the usual provisos that the evidence is persuasive and that a prosecution would be in the public interest - which fare evasion is, then it cannot be rebutted by a payment after the event. But there would have to be an exceptionally good reason to pursue a prosecution for 'alledged fare evasion' following regularisation of the situation by means of payment of a Penalty Fare.

 

[221129]

Payment of a Penalty Fare is, by definition, acknowledgement by the passenger that they didn't have a valid ticket. It wouldn't be a normal thing to do, but a PF can be refunded if the TOC has reason to believe that a more serious irregularity has occurred than it initially appeared to be.

Your source? By paying the Penalty fare you have then paid your fare. If you haven't paid the Penalty Fare it can be cancelled and you can be charged with a bylaw offence.

 

[najaB]

Your source? By paying the Penalty fare you have then paid your fare.

You have paid a fare, but not the fare which was originally due at the time.

My source is nothing more than the fact there is nothing in the Penalty Fares Rules which prohibits it, and it would be the logical thing for a prosecutor to do if they determine after the fact that the passenger is committing large-scale fraud.